How and why I transitioned to Linux, and how you can too • Hacker News Board

Re: How and why I transitioned to Linux, and how you can too

#81

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 4:51 AM UTC

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #67

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe "just the way you like it", but "functional and not sending your private information off to a dubious corporation" is pretty easy. Sure, and that's great if that's all you want out of a personal computer. > When there are issues with a Linux install, it's usually transparent enough to debug. Bull. I've been using Linux for decades and it's always the same story. You have a problem with X, you do a search for…

> > When there are issues with a Linux install, it's usually transparent enough to debug. > Bull. I've been using Linux for decades and it's always the same story. You have a problem with X, you do a search for your problem with X, you find a dozen solutions that don't apply to you because you're on a different distro or they're from 2013 when half the software stack was different. Ok, so in some cases there can be c…

I won't disagree that Windows has this issue, I just disagree that Linux doesn't have equally frustrating diagnosability issues. Just because you haven't personally encountered them does not mean they don't exist.

Re: How and why I transitioned to Linux, and how you can too

#82

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 4:56 AM UTC

ikfmpwdsoz wrote: post #72

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it amusing that so people who are quite capable feel compelled to hold onto the hand-rails for so long and won't just dive in to Linux. Well it doesn't help that Linux desktop is backed by one of the most condescending cultures that ever stalked the internet. Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, the way Linux works just doesn't jive with a lot of people? Like, everything has a middleman involved. Driv…

Huh? Binaries downloaded off the Internet work just as fine on Linux as they do on Windows! Package managers just give you very convenient updating and a chain of trust to greatly reduce the risk of installing malware; and these are things people definitely want - see the App Store, the Play Store, Homebrew, Chocolatey, etc.

> Binaries downloaded off the Internet work just as fine on Linux as they do on Windows!

If that is true, then why do developers keep telling Linux people that distribution to Linux Desktop is a problem? What issue do AppImage and Snap and FlatPak exist to try and solve?

> and these are things people definitely want - see the App Store, the Play Store, Homebrew, Chocolatey, etc.

Chocolatey has a paltry install base, Homebrew is only used by developers, and you don't really get a choice about the mobile stores.

Re: How and why I transitioned to Linux, and how you can too

#83

Post by Animats » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 4:59 AM UTC

I've used Linux on the desktop for over a decade. Currently, Ubuntu 16.04 LTS on x64.

It still sucks for the average user. The GUI is lipstick on a pig. As soon as anything goes wrong, it's back to the command line. You look up the problem, and there will be a dozen articles about it, all contradicting each other. Look up what it takes to create a desktop icon for something. (Hint: the top result in Google won't work.)

I'm currently restoring a Ubuntu system after a hard drive replacement. I've been at this for a day now. Typical little stuff:

- OpenGL frame rate is terrible. The default install turns out to be running OpenGL in the Mesa emulator. Time to install a driver. There's lots of advice on that. Get it from the NVidia site? From Ubuntu? From a driver-aggregation site? (Scary). Want the open source version or the closed source binary? Need CUDA support? Five choices of driver. Finally pick the latest open source version and it works.

- File restoration isn't working properly. I used iDrive for backup, and now it's time to restore. I've restored one or two files from iDrive before, but now I have to restore a lot of them. The interface is a bunch of Perl scripts, with a command line menu system from the 1970s. After much struggling ("Restore From" means the name of the machine that was backed up), I get the restore running. It runs, but about 8,000 files don't restore out of a few hundred thousand. The message is just "FAILED". Files with "&" in the name don't restore. Files with "__" in the name sometimes don't restore. Working on that. Looks like most of what I lost was part of old builds of a big program, but there are a few files I'd like back.

Re: How and why I transitioned to Linux, and how you can too

#84

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 5:01 AM UTC

shmerl wrote: post #70

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me put it this way. What's the best damn GPU on the market right now? I'm actually not sure, but I'd bet good money the top 3 slots are nVidia. Even if you use the nVidia proprietary drivers, the data says you're suffering a performance hit for it. God help if you're using nouveau, because you just wasted hundreds of dollars. The kinds of people I think of when you say "serious gamers" are not going to be very ha…

> The kinds of people I think of when you say "serious gamers" are not going to be very happy with the idea that they're locked out of the best kit Again, generalizations like "serious gamer always does that" are not helpful. Lot's of people are not satisfied with Windows for many reasons. Would they switch to Linux if they could play their games? Many would and already do, and I wouldn't call them not serious. Perfo…

> Again, generalizations like "serious gamer always does that" are not helpful.

Then why did you make a generalization in the first place and keep making it? I didn't introduce the term to the conversation you know.

Let's ask a simple question: would your conception of a "serious gamer" include literally anyone who plays PC games at all? You have to have some line you're drawing somewhere right? Well, I can't read your mind so I'm using my own line, which is drawn where someone considers gaming to be a very high priority to them, and it seems unlikely to me that that kind of person is willing to make that trade off for some nebulous concept of "privacy".

Re: How and why I transitioned to Linux, and how you can too

#85

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 5:02 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #83

I've used Linux on the desktop for over a decade. Currently, Ubuntu 16.04 LTS on x64. It still sucks for the average user. The GUI is lipstick on a pig. As soon as anything goes wrong, it's back to the command line. You look up the problem, and there will be a dozen articles about it, all contradicting each other. Look up what it takes to create a desktop icon for something. (Hint: the top result in Google won't work…

[deleted]

Re: How and why I transitioned to Linux, and how you can too

#86

Post by shmerl » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 5:05 AM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #84

shmerl wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The kinds of people I think of when you say "serious gamers" are not going to be very happy with the idea that they're locked out of the best kit Again, generalizations like "serious gamer always does that" are not helpful. Lot's of people are not satisfied with Windows for many reasons. Would they switch to Linux if they could play their games? Many would and already do, and I wouldn't call them not serious. Perfo…

> Again, generalizations like "serious gamer always does that" are not helpful. Then why did you make a generalization in the first place and keep making it? I didn't introduce the term to the conversation you know. Let's ask a simple question: would your conception of a "serious gamer" include literally anyone who plays PC games at all? You have to have some line you're drawing somewhere right? Well, I can't read yo…

> Then why did you make a generalization in the first place and keep making it

I didn't introduce it either, I simply referenced what the article used, to disagree with the point that Linux is not suitable for "serious gamer", as to say that there are gamers today who switch to Linux and who aren't any less serious than others.

> Let's ask a simple question: would your conception of a "serious gamer" include literally anyone who plays PC games at all?

I'd say someone who prefers to have good hardware to be able to play more demanding games is serious enough about it. Many Linux gamers do that as well. What's the reason to claim they aren't serious?

Re: How and why I transitioned to Linux, and how you can too

#87

Post by wyattpeak » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 5:06 AM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #31

bigiain wrote: post #28

So 2019 is _finally_ gonna be the year of Linux on the Desktop? (Pardon me if I seem a little skeptical, I've heard this song before...)

blender is getting fun; inkscape reaches 1.0, gimp might evolve methinks if libreoffice gets a bit leaner and featured it might be

I thought Libreoffice was fine enough until I started working in an office with people on Windows.

I ran into so many compatibility problems I could barely believe it. Couldn't edit each other's headers, no maths support worked between the two, images and other objects would get randomly shuffled in the documents (one image showing up where another used to be). To say nothing of the minor niggling display differences reminiscent of the old IE6 box model problems.

I had to start sending documents in PDF, but then they couldn't edit them. That alone was enough to move me back to Windows.

For better or worse, I don't think Libreoffice can move forward until interoperability can be presumed.

Re: How and why I transitioned to Linux, and how you can too

#88

Post by Godel_unicode » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 5:12 AM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #40

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it amusing that so people who are quite capable feel compelled to hold onto the hand-rails for so long and won't just dive in to Linux. Well it doesn't help that Linux desktop is backed by one of the most condescending cultures that ever stalked the internet. Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, the way Linux works just doesn't jive with a lot of people? Like, everything has a middleman involved. Driv…

> Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, the way Linux works just doesn't jive with a lot of people? Like, everything has a middleman involved. Drivers for your hardware? Have to be merged into the kernel. Applications? Should go through (all of) the distro package repo(s) unless you want it to be a pain …? This is a really strange perspective, since I've found Linux to remove middlemen. No more searching a manu…

> No more waiting for Microsoft to roll out fixes; you can apply your own changes yourself.

And now you have to, forever, since you're no longer using a package manager to get updates to your custom buggy horror show.

> No more searching a manufacterer's website for some garbage closed-source driver

Please point me to the source for the drivers for my rtx2080. That would be super helpful!

Re: How and why I transitioned to Linux, and how you can too

#89

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 5:18 AM UTC

shmerl wrote: post #86

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Again, generalizations like "serious gamer always does that" are not helpful. Then why did you make a generalization in the first place and keep making it? I didn't introduce the term to the conversation you know. Let's ask a simple question: would your conception of a "serious gamer" include literally anyone who plays PC games at all? You have to have some line you're drawing somewhere right? Well, I can't read yo…

> Then why did you make a generalization in the first place and keep making it I didn't introduce it either, I simply referenced what the article used, to disagree with the point that Linux is not suitable for "serious gamer", as to say that there are gamers today who switch to Linux and who aren't any less serious than others. > Let's ask a simple question: would your conception of a "serious gamer" include literall…

Ok, if that's the line we're using, then that includes anyone who isn't satisfied with the on-die GPU. That's a sufficiently broad definition of "serious" to include quite a lot of people who would sacrifice performance and compatibility for privacy, so I agree your statement is applicable to that group.

That's just not the group I think of when someone uses the term "serious" in this manner. Sure, they're on the spectrum of seriousness, but if I were to tell you that someone was a "serious cigar smoker", do you honestly imagine a guy who smokes machine rolled every few months?

Re: How and why I transitioned to Linux, and how you can too

#90

Post by dgzl » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 5:21 AM UTC

I started using Ubuntu Linux about 8 years ago, about the same time I started my CS degree at school. Over the years, my interest in Windows shrunk to essentially just PC gaming. When school got serious I stopped gaming as much, and all my needs from both school and personal computing were met with open source tools.

Every once in a while I would try a new distro as live CD, just for kicks, and to see how things are different. I learned how to use my own window manager and terminal program. I found that the necessary elements needed for working Linux are actually quite small, and most everything beyond that is for convenience.

When you learn to use the terminal, your entire perspective on how to use a computer changes. No longer are you wasting time swishing your mouse around, clicking on folders and icons. Instead, you live on the keyboard, using hotkeys, personal aliases, tab completion, STDIO piping, dot files, terminal based text editors... There's a lot to master.

But don't feel put off by this, we actually have a lot of fun in the terminal. We can play music with MPD/Ncmpcpp, play Tetris, retrieve HN articles and view comments, retrieve 3-day local weather with animations, we can even browse webpages. It's actually a fun world in the terminal, and we can eliminate the need for otherwise fatty software.

If you're looking for something that Just Werks as a Windows replacement, any Ubuntu derivative will be fine. If you're looking for something that requires more work but might spur interest (i.e. hobby), you might try Arch or Gentoo. And if you're looking for rice examples, check out Reddit/unixporn.