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AWS gives open source the middle finger?

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Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#81

Post by peterwwillis »

arbie wrote: post #67
peterwwillis wrote: post #40

From the movie "Revolution OS" [1], Richard Stallman explaining Copyleft: "If we put the software in the public domain, somebody else would be able to make a little bit of changes and turn that into a proprietary software package, which means that the users would be running our software, but they wouldn't have freedom to cooperate and share." "And what we do is, we say, this software is copyrighted and we, the author…

> Could have gotten free fixes from the biggest lab in the world Wasn't this one of the main points of contention, though, in addition to not purchasing a commerical license? Amazon not upstreaming (m)any of the fixes?

I don't know, it's certainly possible. But at least there was the opportunity, as they have upstreamed fixes for other projects. And it's not like keeping the fixes private was hurting anyone (unless they're security fixes; I think modern licenses should require all security bugs at least be reported, in the absence of changesets)

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#82

Post by x3n0ph3n3 »

threeseed wrote: post #60
exabrial wrote: post #53

It's mongodb though... It's well documented at this point you shouldn't be using mongo on anything that matters

And yet many of us are using it in Production. Including companies like Adobe, eBay, Expedia, Sony etc.

I think you just made his point with that list of companies.

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#83

Post by Pfhreak »

cryptonector wrote: post #78
spectre256 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I "accidentally" worked at amazon for a few weeks when a company I had just joined was acquired by them. I knew it was time to start looking when I was informed that I had to get prior permission to do ANY open source contributions even on my own hardware on my own time. That's just not feasible logistically and above and beyond the general "don't write open source that competes with us or on our our time/hardware wi…

If the approvals issue in all cases where the project clearly is unrelated to the employer's business, then what's the problem? To some degree review of external work is just the sort of thing a corporate legal department is going to push for, and it's not exactly unreasonable provided that approvals issue except where there is clearly a conflict.

I agree with you -- if there's a process and it's easy enough to get an approval, I (personally) have no problems.

However, Amazon's game development policy lays out 10ish different requirements you must meet, including not working with others outside of your org, must give up ownership of IP at Amazon's request, must use Amazon services or provide feedback why you couldn't. There's no process by which any of those items can be waived.

This basically means you can't do game jams with friends unless they work in your org. And if your game jam is successful, you run the risk of Amazon just taking ownership.

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#84

Post by Pfhreak »

flukus wrote: post #77
Pfhreak wrote: post #3

I left AWS after six years of working there wholly because of their restrictive policies about developing software in your spare time -- especially if you were thinking about working on a game. I recognize this article is about a product offering of AWS, and not their internal policies towards contributing to open source, but the two are linked in my mind and I'm not all surprised to see a headline like this.

> especially if you were thinking about working on a game Why games especially? That seems to be the one area the would be absolutely free of any conflict of interest with amazon.

Amazon has a game studio producing games. They've publicly announced Breakaway, New World, and Crucible as three titles.

Why games are different than other areas (e.g. why aren't web services called out separately with their own policy while games are? I'm not sure.)

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#85

Post by Zarel »

flukus wrote: post #77
Pfhreak wrote: post #3

I left AWS after six years of working there wholly because of their restrictive policies about developing software in your spare time -- especially if you were thinking about working on a game. I recognize this article is about a product offering of AWS, and not their internal policies towards contributing to open source, but the two are linked in my mind and I'm not all surprised to see a headline like this.

> especially if you were thinking about working on a game Why games especially? That seems to be the one area the would be absolutely free of any conflict of interest with amazon.

I imagine it has to do with Amazon Lumberyard:

https://aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#86

Post by cryptonector »

Pfhreak wrote: post #83
cryptonector wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the approvals issue in all cases where the project clearly is unrelated to the employer's business, then what's the problem? To some degree review of external work is just the sort of thing a corporate legal department is going to push for, and it's not exactly unreasonable provided that approvals issue except where there is clearly a conflict.

I agree with you -- if there's a process and it's easy enough to get an approval, I (personally) have no problems. However, Amazon's game development policy lays out 10ish different requirements you must meet, including not working with others outside of your org, must give up ownership of IP at Amazon's request, must use Amazon services or provide feedback why you couldn't. There's no process by which any of those i…

Yeah, that's not OK. That's not like any policy I've seen anywhere.

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#87

Post by mochomocha »

notyourwork wrote: post #6
Pfhreak wrote: post #3

I left AWS after six years of working there wholly because of their restrictive policies about developing software in your spare time -- especially if you were thinking about working on a game. I recognize this article is about a product offering of AWS, and not their internal policies towards contributing to open source, but the two are linked in my mind and I'm not all surprised to see a headline like this.

Every company has the same attitude in my experience, this ins't unique to Amazon. edit: For those down voting instead of just disagreeing provide a company and their policy. All the companies I've worked at have been the same as Amazon more or less and all my friends have similar employment clauses.

Netflix.

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#88

Post by senderista »

spectre256 wrote: post #10
Pfhreak wrote: post #3

I left AWS after six years of working there wholly because of their restrictive policies about developing software in your spare time -- especially if you were thinking about working on a game. I recognize this article is about a product offering of AWS, and not their internal policies towards contributing to open source, but the two are linked in my mind and I'm not all surprised to see a headline like this.

I "accidentally" worked at amazon for a few weeks when a company I had just joined was acquired by them. I knew it was time to start looking when I was informed that I had to get prior permission to do ANY open source contributions even on my own hardware on my own time. That's just not feasible logistically and above and beyond the general "don't write open source that competes with us or on our our time/hardware wi…

Not just that, when I was there (2013-2014), you couldn’t even post a line of code on Stack Overflow or participate in any MOOC with coding assignments without prior approval. (The security folks couldn’t do any CTFs either.) I doubt any of their competitors have such extreme policies (except maybe Apple, who knows).

Re: AWS gives open source the middle finger?

#90

Post by yesenadam »

Pfhreak wrote: post #3

I left AWS after six years of working there wholly because of their restrictive policies about developing software in your spare time -- especially if you were thinking about working on a game. I recognize this article is about a product offering of AWS, and not their internal policies towards contributing to open source, but the two are linked in my mind and I'm not all surprised to see a headline like this.

I just now started reading Merritt's Adventure in Prolog (1990), and the very beginning seems somehow relevant to this thread:

"I was working for an aerospace company in the early 1970s when someone got a copy of the original Adventure game and installed it on our mainframe computer. For the next month my lunch hours, evenings and weekends, as well as normal work hours, were consumed with fighting the fierce green dragon and escaping from the twisty little passages. Finally, with a few hints about the plover's egg and dynamite, I had proudly earned all the points in the game.

My elation turned to terror as I realized it was time for my performance review. My boss was a stern man, more comfortable with machines than people. He opened up a large computer printout containing a log of hours each programmer spent on the mainframe computer. He said he noticed that recently I had been working evenings and weekends and that he admired that type of dedication in his employees. He gave me the maximum raise and told me to keep up the good work."

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