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How to Choose a Startup to Work for by Thinking Like an Investor

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Re: How to Choose a Startup to Work for by Thinking Like an Investor

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO there's only two paths that really makes sense now when considering a private co. Either a) join super early (e.g. penny strike price) with a meaningful % of total company (at least 10 bps) OR b) join late stage growth co that offers RSUs over options (e.g. "Softbank" stage cos). Joining a "middle" stage co where you are offered expensive options is the worst, since you've missed out on the early upside and you t…

I wouldn't consider 10 bps (0.1%) meaningful. Early stage is very, very risky.

Yes. I generally like to make a reverse calculation when evaluating such offers. To get $1 million out of this risk, the company has to exit for $1 billion if I have 0.1% stake. How likely is it? And that's before considering dilution, preference stocks, option exercise problems, etc.

Joining a BigCo can give $1 million (above startup salary) in 5 years with a very high probability.

Re: How to Choose a Startup to Work for by Thinking Like an Investor

#82
An aside to this article: along with thinking like an investor, you can also reach out to investors who will often be willing to help with your job search.

For example, as a seed VC there are now about 80 companies at various stages that my fund works with. If someone emails me and says, "I'm a good engineer who wants to join a Series A startup in SF or Oakland that has characteristics X, Y, and Z," there's a good chance I can make a few useful recs.

There's nice incentive alignment here: the VC doesn't get any compensation, they just want their companies and the prospective employee to do well. That means 1) we won't recommend a bad fit to an employee because we want the employee to join and be happy and get their friends to ask us for company recs; 2) we won't recommend a bad fit to a company because we want founders to like us and not feel distracted by us. We're going for quality, not quantity -- and you're welcome to ignore our suggestions. So if you're good at what you do and are looking to join a startup, consider soliciting recs from a few investors with large portfolios.

I wrote a short post about this a few years ago: https://www.codingvc.com/using-investors-to-find-the-ideal-s...

I might regret posting this invite on HN, but if you want to join a startup and want recs, my email is in my blog's header.

Re: How to Choose a Startup to Work for by Thinking Like an Investor

#83
Some good points there. A couple of things to add from my experience.

The asking hard questions is very important. I once interviewed with a startup that just raised $3MM. You pay them a small fee and if your flight gets cancelled they find you a new one for free. I pressed the founder hard on why someone like me would buy that insurance and his answer eventually was for the same reason you buy insurance for your car or house. Once he gave me that answer I knew I'm not going to work there. And this was actually a nice startup with some good people. There are much worse startups with founders who have no clue and god knows how they managed to raise money. One founder once told me he is well connected and one phone call and people write him checks (red flag). Then there are the ones who are really shady and will lie about everything. Be very careful and don't ignore the red flags!

Another important point is that you need to make sure the startup really needs you. In the past I talked with two startups that built their pitch around AI but they had very little knowledge of AI so what they had in mind wasn't really possible and even if it was, the product had millions of other things to succeed before AI was even needed. The problem is that founders sometimes focus too much about their pitch and how to impress investors rather than on their product.

Re: How to Choose a Startup to Work for by Thinking Like an Investor

#84
The metaphor of early startup employee as investor seems really smart at first but is ludicrous in reality.

It is physically impossible to choose a startup like a VC because you cannot diversify your portfolio like they can. VCs can sprinkle (relatively) small amounts of money across dozens or hundreds of startups. If one fails then the impact to the portfolio is negligible. In fact, VCs expect that most of their portfolio probably won't pan out.

Good luck diversifying as an employee. Working part time at even 2 startups is obviously laughable.

If you're in it for the money, working at a startup is probably not for you. It really is akin to gambling. There may seem to be more information available than gambling, but there is so much unknown and hidden information it's damn near impossible to make a 'rational' decision.

That's not to say you should never work at a startup. Startups are often great learning opportunities because you usually have both broad and deep scope of responsibility. There's also often better alignment between management and employees because people tend to be working stuff that is materially relatable to the bottom line. It can also be a career accelerator if the company grows headcount rapidly and you suddenly become a 'senior person'™. YMMV.

Re: How to Choose a Startup to Work for by Thinking Like an Investor

#85
I love working for startups, but not working for startups that have VC money -- the involvement of VCs changes the nature of everything.

But then, my goal is primarily to do meaningful work on interesting projects. I have little interest in getting rich.

Re: How to Choose a Startup to Work for by Thinking Like an Investor

#86

Naive question: why not work for a FAANG, try to make close to half a million after enough time, promotions and jumping ship between the different firms, then just invest whatever you're not spending into the stock market or whatever other assets you choose? Take the 400k you're not spending and dump into Tesla and friends, or whatever other sexy stock du jour? Seems like a much healthier risk profile unless you ONLY…

If you can, you probably should! I've come to believe that the best chances of getting a financial benefit (as opposed to just an experience benefit) from working at a startup is to be a founder. If you're "just" an engineer, it's unlikely to be worth it.

Re: How to Choose a Startup to Work for by Thinking Like an Investor

#87

The metaphor of early startup employee as investor seems really smart at first but is ludicrous in reality. It is physically impossible to choose a startup like a VC because you cannot diversify your portfolio like they can. VCs can sprinkle (relatively) small amounts of money across dozens or hundreds of startups. If one fails then the impact to the portfolio is negligible. In fact, VCs expect that most of their por…

I agree with you, and this was my initial response when i started reading the post.

VCs also get far more information about the company and can demand way more control. How many employees of a startup get a board seat, even if you're non-founder employee #1?

Even those diversified portfolios aren't going to have huge returns in most cases.

I think the lesson is that if your value proposition is exchanging your skills and time for money (ie, an employee) you can't parlay that into startup style returns without essentially winning the lottery. If you can pick the next unicorn for employment purposes don't waste your talents on actually being an employee

Re: How to Choose a Startup to Work for by Thinking Like an Investor

#88

The metaphor of early startup employee as investor seems really smart at first but is ludicrous in reality. It is physically impossible to choose a startup like a VC because you cannot diversify your portfolio like they can. VCs can sprinkle (relatively) small amounts of money across dozens or hundreds of startups. If one fails then the impact to the portfolio is negligible. In fact, VCs expect that most of their por…

The best part is stock options. Not only are you not diversified, now you get to concentrate your portfolio by buying stock in the company that provides your income.

Stock options: for concentrating your income and your investments when you're excited and biased.

Re: How to Choose a Startup to Work for by Thinking Like an Investor

#89
post #9
post #6

This is how I've approached joining the last two companies I've signed on with. In the hiring process I ask to speak with finance and the founders to see if the company has the legs to be a real rocket ship. Remember that an interview is just as much about them interviewing you as it is for you to interview them .

How likely is it that you as a potential employee get to see the books and know what's going on like that these days? Honest question; seems like it's a tougher thing to get access to than for a VC, but maybe I'm wrong.

At Figma we're pretty open with employees about this stuff.

Re: How to Choose a Startup to Work for by Thinking Like an Investor

#90

The metaphor of early startup employee as investor seems really smart at first but is ludicrous in reality. It is physically impossible to choose a startup like a VC because you cannot diversify your portfolio like they can. VCs can sprinkle (relatively) small amounts of money across dozens or hundreds of startups. If one fails then the impact to the portfolio is negligible. In fact, VCs expect that most of their por…

Even if you are not in it for the money, joining a big company gives you good income right away. Speaking from experience, the quality of life change when you don't have to worry about daily expenses is enormous. Being able to buy high quality groceries, eating out when you want to, spending time/money on hobbies, etc. can improve quality of life significantly. Besides these selfish reasons, it's also possible to donate a much higher percentage of your income for good causes.

Between my wife and I (both software engineers), we have played this VC startup game 5 times. Never again.

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