Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

vice.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 96 posts

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#81

Post by fredgrott »

zomg wrote: post #79

At it's core, this is an economic problem. When there's an "endless" supply of money, prices go up. Combined with the newfound belief that, you must, and in fact, are entitled to go to college, "demand" goes up too. The result is students racking up needless debt when they probably shouldn't have gone to college to begin with. College is NOT the only option to build a successful career, but in America, with no degree…

yes BUT we have some things masking stuff:

in the USA and other places colleges repeat for first two years same course in High school...Indiana and some other states now rewards HS students taking the get out of college courses tests now with free 2-year degrees to reduce student debt on 4 year degrees

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#82

Post by nikk1 »

exabrial wrote: post #17

Just like the housing crisis... when are we going to learn that government backed debt is a terrible thing for our nation? Creditors _should_ turn away bad lendees or cap loan limits, or increase your interest rate based on risk factors. Some exmaples of this might be: * Limiting the amount of money you can be loaned for majors that don't have good job prospects. People should turn to grants for these types of educat…

How about limiting the cost of tuition? I'm about $80k in debt, and my Alma mater just set up a $75 million student center. How does a luxury cafeteria contribute to the value of a student's education? Universities across the nation are putting an ungodly amount of money into sports stadiums, student centers, luxury dorms, etc. Our federal loan money is going directly to these unnecessary amenities rather than improved education programs. Check out the documentary Ivory Tower [1]. The cost of the education alone isn't that expensive. I'm hoping we will see more reputable online programs like Georgia Tech's Online Master of Science which only costs about $7,000 [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivory_Tower_(2014_film) [2] http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#83

Post by imtringued »

remote_phone wrote: post #52
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mom discharged her student loan debt by passing away. They didn’t even go after her estate for some reason. The bar is higher, but not impossibly high.

I would consider Death the highest possible bar there is.

But it is guaranteed to happen eventually for all humans and therefore the debt is guaranteed to be discharged for every student.

But I don't think most people who are struggling to repay their student loan are in their 70s so there is no risk of elderly people dying all at once and leaving the government stranded with the huge debt.

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#84

Post by Aromasin »

nixpulvis wrote: post #32

I strongly believe that lower cost vocational education with group housing for 18-23 year olds is part of a solution to this problem. You don't need the full college experience, but as the article mentions, getting away from home is a part of it for most.

Years back, most public services in the UK provided this exact thing. Junior nurses, service personnel, police constables and the like all lived in what was effectively a small dormitory, akin to university halls but much cheaper. It worked well and allowed them to save money to buy their own properties, while being relatively cost effective. It also made becoming a public worker a reasonably desirable profession; providing them essentially free housing, a decent pension, and a good sense of community that comes from living with colleagues and friends.

As funding was cut to public services over the years, the housing was sold off to private buyers and replaced with grant schemes. Unfortunately the grants have not increased at the rate of rent and housing, leaving many junior public workers worse off. It is in my opinion potentially contributing to a public worker shortage at the very least [1].

The armed forces kept much of their housing due to their bigger budget, but less group housing has meant worse economies of scale, and many of these buildings have become horribly dilapidated, lacking basic amenities [2].

[1] https://fullfact.org/health/are-we-short-40000-nurses/

[2] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43135967

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#85

Post by downrightmike »

zomg wrote: post #79

At it's core, this is an economic problem. When there's an "endless" supply of money, prices go up. Combined with the newfound belief that, you must, and in fact, are entitled to go to college, "demand" goes up too. The result is students racking up needless debt when they probably shouldn't have gone to college to begin with. College is NOT the only option to build a successful career, but in America, with no degree…

There was an article over the weekend about MIT and that 58% of their students receiving financial aid. And how the tuition has gone up over 1000% in the last 20 years. And that MIT is purposly setting the tuition so high because it enables them to be a tax exempt charity based on that 58%. Point is that it is in the school's best interest to make it unaffordable for most of the students that go there. More loan money is available, so the tuition goes up to keep it unaffordable for most of the students.

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#86

Post by FeloniousHam »

nightski wrote: post #73
ajtaylor wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could go into the "blue collar" trades like plumbing, electrical work, etc. After you get some experience, the trades can be a very lucrative line of work. Albeit you have to sweat and get your hands dirty. Mike Rowe has a few very persuasive thoughts on the subject as well, and can do it much more eloquently than I can.

It's also dooming yourself to a life of little mental stimulation and lots of repetition. I have no problem with physical labor (love house projects and hobbies), but these jobs would suck the life out of me for that reason.

My father was an electrician by trade, but generally very capable. He loved the problem solving aspect of his job. Wiring and code are not so far apart as you might think.

I've often felt, given the pedestrian nature of the problems I have to solve in code, he got the better end of the bargain.

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#87

Post by KozmoNau7 »

exabrial wrote: post #17

Just like the housing crisis... when are we going to learn that government backed debt is a terrible thing for our nation? Creditors _should_ turn away bad lendees or cap loan limits, or increase your interest rate based on risk factors. Some exmaples of this might be: * Limiting the amount of money you can be loaned for majors that don't have good job prospects. People should turn to grants for these types of educat…

Or maybe nationalize education, end all for-profit colleges and universities, and just you know, pay for people's educations. Consider it an investment in the future of the country, and a measure to increase social mobility.

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#88

Post by KozmoNau7 »

ajtaylor wrote: post #62
konaraddio wrote: post #46

> Meanwhile, some people are more than happy to spend $100,000 on a graphic design degree that may get them a job paying roughly $40,000 a year > A lot of that has to do with what Goldfarb likes to call the narrative—one that convinced kids that the only route to middle-class respectability was to get a college degree and that suggested failing to do so meant having failed at the American dream of upward mobility. To…

Or you could go into the "blue collar" trades like plumbing, electrical work, etc. After you get some experience, the trades can be a very lucrative line of work. Albeit you have to sweat and get your hands dirty. Mike Rowe has a few very persuasive thoughts on the subject as well, and can do it much more eloquently than I can.

Mike Rowe is deep in the pocket of the Koch brothers, he's very anti-union.

He wants people to work hard and suck it up, instead of unionizing and fighting for fair treatment.

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#89

Post by KozmoNau7 »

zomg wrote: post #79

At it's core, this is an economic problem. When there's an "endless" supply of money, prices go up. Combined with the newfound belief that, you must, and in fact, are entitled to go to college, "demand" goes up too. The result is students racking up needless debt when they probably shouldn't have gone to college to begin with. College is NOT the only option to build a successful career, but in America, with no degree…

Everyone has the right to education. Right now it is an artificially limited resources, which hurts future society and hampers social mobility, working in direct opposition to the promised American Dream.

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#90

Post by beatgammit »

nikk1 wrote: post #82
exabrial wrote: post #17

Just like the housing crisis... when are we going to learn that government backed debt is a terrible thing for our nation? Creditors _should_ turn away bad lendees or cap loan limits, or increase your interest rate based on risk factors. Some exmaples of this might be: * Limiting the amount of money you can be loaned for majors that don't have good job prospects. People should turn to grants for these types of educat…

How about limiting the cost of tuition? I'm about $80k in debt, and my Alma mater just set up a $75 million student center. How does a luxury cafeteria contribute to the value of a student's education? Universities across the nation are putting an ungodly amount of money into sports stadiums, student centers, luxury dorms, etc. Our federal loan money is going directly to these unnecessary amenities rather than improv…

I think high tuition is a symptom of easy access to credit and a focus on college education. A university education isn't right for many people, yet we're continually pressured to go that route and accept the high cost of tuition as a given.

A lot of what we're taught in higher education isn't particularly relevant to future job success. Does it really matter if I know that bananas likely reduced the need for agriculture in Africa, likely leading to the limited technological advancement in the region? Maybe, if I'm going into history or something, not not if I'm in a technical field.

I think we should put _less_ emphasis on college during high school, have more opportunities to try different fields in high school, and improve students' access to job demand and expected pay figures when choosing a degree. We should also make getting loans less easy and remove rules that prevent bankruptcy from erasing those loans (e.g. no more federal student loans). Ideally, by graduation, a student will either have a marketable certification, apprenticeship, or college level courses completed, and college will take 2-3 years for a bachelor's degree.

Also, let's remove most of the standardized testing. I'm convinced it's more harmful than helpful, especially in primary education.

Post reply on HN