81–90 of 789 posts
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In this particular case Carl Benjamin claims to be anti-nazi. His language, while shockingly offensive, wasn't calling for anybody to be eradicated.
I don’t know anything about this particular case, but it is certainly possible to be a Nazi while claiming to be anti-Nazi.
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Good question. I've found a transcript published by patreon: https://patreonhq.com/hate-speech-on-patreon-a9026e52c2cf?gi... It's... pretty vitriolic. I'm not totally comfortable with even quoting the redacted version, but here goes nothing: > “I just can’t be bothered with people who chose to treat me like this. It’s really annoying. Like, I — . You’re acting like a bunch of n_____s, just so you know. You act like w…
Reading this as a straight white guy, the slurs aren't as offensive as the whole underlying philosophy and line of thinking. Although I like that the No True Scotsman fallacy leaking through the cracks.
But "white people are meant to be polite and respectful to one another" is so counterfactual it's hard to imagine anyone actually believes that.
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Good question. I've found a transcript published by patreon: https://patreonhq.com/hate-speech-on-patreon-a9026e52c2cf?gi... It's... pretty vitriolic. I'm not totally comfortable with even quoting the redacted version, but here goes nothing: > “I just can’t be bothered with people who chose to treat me like this. It’s really annoying. Like, I — . You’re acting like a bunch of n_____s, just so you know. You act like w…
Oh, yeah, that's bad. He's not even mentioning the words, he's just using them against white people instead of black, but the way he uses them is still meant as an insult. Oops.
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According to what I've heard, those clear rules state that they apply to what is said as part of work that is funded by Patreon. This could be misinformation, though, and I'd be happy if someone corrects it here. With that in mind, he made the remarks in question during a conversation that took place on somebody else's YouTube channel. It sounds like Patreon presumes that the guy's patronized work includes all public…
I'm not sure why people expect platforms that have ToS to be robotic about them. Companies are run by people. People get uncomfortable when you become known for spraying around racial epithets, and some are not going to want to work with you. If I'm using some vendor and find out that I really don't like what their public persona is doing, I'm going to reevaluate that relationship.
This is why lawyers have jobs. In a situation like this, the reasonable thing to do is ambiguous, and opinions are strongly split in half. If there's an objective standard, everybody can just point to that. It's not the most communitarian thing, but it's a way to bypass conflict and move on.
Now the particular reason half of the people are up in arms here is that it's stifling to know that you could lose your whole livelihood over a choice of words on (arguably?) your own time. On the other hand it's a choice of words that the other half the people deem beyond the pale in any context. It's a bit of a mess, and I'm not sure whether this will resolve itself on a useful standard that a lawyer can point to, much less what that standard might be.
The article avoids the specifics of what Benjamin said, which makes it hard to judge whether Patreon is acting reasonably. The interview in question is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ87Wf-0rZg . Here are some excerpts from the automatically generated transcript (click the 3 dots, then "Open transcript"): I just can't be bothered to deal with people who treat me like this it's really annoying like I you are a…
It's also worth considering that the Alt-Right has been deliberately working to get more popular moderate figures like Sargon kicked off of mainstream platforms, so they'll be forced to move (and bring their audiences) to Alt-Right platforms: https://twitter.com/crislopezg/status/969225740540678145
I hope they succeed, because they'll just end up isolating themselves to their own little echo chambers, sparing the rest of us from having to hear their drivel.
There's a reason why these voices are getting stronger that are rooted in the current society issues.
Sure silencing them might buy some time, but unless the root problem are addressed more will crop up or people will turn to them and to populists looking for a way to externalize their sorrow against some external force.
You can trace the trajectory pretty well looking the political climate all around the world. People gave the right a try, the left a try, now the populists are going strong and it's getting worse.
You want to silence the alt right? Fix youth unemployment, income inequality and the rising cost of living and they'll disappear overnight because their platform will.
Silencing one or hundreds voices won't silence the thoughts people are having.
-2 Edit: so as usual it is apparent it is impossible to have a discussion on hivemind news. Oh well. If even the actual reality you live in can't convince that there's a strong polarization in the public discussion and the factions are bringing ruin to the debate, politics economy and even the world itself with populist undoing years of climate policies you are part of the problem too.
Looks like this guy is from Europe. Do they have the same stigma for those words? Are we okay applying American standards to their words? That would be a slippery slope. Some nations consider speech against their sultans or their deens as hate speech. Will patreon take the side of those governments or the vast majority of those populations (who will gladly watch blasphemers get imprisoned)? On the other hand, should…
We both know a dude from the UK, who primarily speaks English, and who talks about American politics would be aware of the stigma of the word.
> Are we okay applying American standards to their words?
It's important to look at the context of the situation to determine what's happening. In this situation, Sargon was appealing emotionally to white supremacists by saying they are as low as black people and that they should be better by acting white--this implies black people are lower than white people. It's racist and that's pretty obvious.
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I don’t know anything about this particular case, but it is certainly possible to be a Nazi while claiming to be anti-Nazi.
I can't speak to what's really in the guy's head, but he seemed to be arguing with and insulting nazis.
He wasn't arguing with white supremacists because he fundamentally disagreed with them. It was infighting between factions. He disagreed with a particular faction's behavior and words.
He was arguing with them because they, using his words, were acting like "white n-words"[1]:
> “I just can’t be bothered with people who chose to treat me like this. It’s really annoying. Like, I — . You’re acting like a bunch of n_____s, just so you know. You act like white n_____s. Exactly how you describe black people acting is the impression I get dealing with the Alt Right. I’m really, I’m just not in the mood to deal with this kind of disrespect.”
> “Look, you carry on, but don’t expect me to then have a debate with one of your f__gots.…Like why would I bother?…Maybe you’re just acting like a n____r, mate? Have you considered that? Do you think white people act like this? White people are meant to be polite and respectful to one another, and you guys can’t even act like white people, it’s really amazing to me.”
[1] https://patreonhq.com/hate-speech-on-patreon-a9026e52c2cf?gi...
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I don't know if it's centralisation so much as personification. Patreon wants to be a a friendly brand, part of people's self-image. And having chosen this, perhaps they can't afford to live and let live. It's very difficult to imagine Bell Telephone (in their 100% monopoly days I mean) feeling responsible for what people discuss on their wires, or feeling a need to deny (say) pornographers service so that its other…
> Or Visa likewise today -- it's understood that other people will use the same plastic to pay for things you morally disapprove of, just as they could use cash. But it's positioned as a neutral carrier, and nobody cares (I think). Heh, well I hope so. But that recent NYTimes story[0] about how mass shootings used guns and ammo bought with a credit card makes me unsure about that. I'd have thought using cash vs credi…
For me that's flipping the bozo bit for that individual. It's not "fascism" or "trump" that we should be afraid of. It's the mob rule.
Looks like this guy is from Europe. Do they have the same stigma for those words? Are we okay applying American standards to their words? That would be a slippery slope. Some nations consider speech against their sultans or their deens as hate speech. Will patreon take the side of those governments or the vast majority of those populations (who will gladly watch blasphemers get imprisoned)? On the other hand, should…
From the context, it seems he was using the words because he knew they were offensive. Also maybe that excuse works for ESL Europeans, but I'm not very convinced it works for somebody who's British.