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Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%

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Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%

#81
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Taboola news carousals at the bottom of most slow loading actual news sites are filled with total junk. This, a thousands times. For both Taboola and Outbrain it's clickbaity trash - usually misleading and low quality content. They're designed to "disrupt" so that people click on them and have in the past featured on blatantly false news stories. I'd honestly be ashamed to work at one of these sort of organisat…

It's interesting that so many people would enjoy AMP, because on my Android, viewing AMP sites in Google's main app often feels much slower than regular web browsing in Firefox for Android. The difference? I have an ad-blocker in Firefox, but not in Google's app. So Ad-blocking > AMP > Regular (as far as user-experience from a speed perspective). Obviously Google has a lot of incentive to make sure people don't go th…

The best of both worlds is to use Firefox to handle the AMP site links from Google Now, or Google Feed, or whatever it is called now. Fast, and with ublock.

The only problem I've ever seen is that stories from tomshardware do not load in firefox mobile unless I replace the amp in the URL with a www.

Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%

#82

The analysis on the google analytics data seems a bit biased against AMP. - decrease in average positions in SERPs on mobile - decrease in CTR on mobile - higher number of impressions - slight increase in total clicks These measures are correlated. You can't just add them all together. More impressions with the same amount of clicks means CTR (click through rate) will drop. Average position should also drop. In this…

Very much agree with this comment. It’s quite likely that the AMP pages received incremental impressions in lower positions, which reduced the overall average position but increased clicks.

The screenshot of rankings from another tool (looks like Accuranker) with a few +1 ranking improvements after disabling AMP also seems insignificant. Often this kind of fluctuation is very normal. Without knowing the baseline level of ranking fluctuation, it’s hard to read too much into this.

This is the danger of analysing ‘totals’ without segmentation to better track incrementality.

Any test needs to be properly controlled to form clear conclusions and I don’t see enough rigor here.

I would however commend the article on its advice to avoid simply ‘disabling’ AMP after using it for a period of time. There is cleanup to be done as the article touches on, and I suspect many may not be aware.

Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From experience its not the tracking code that's the big slowdown, its poor page design, bloated implementation no you do not need custom fonts. The worst culprit is not knowing how to use photoshop to optimise images properly.

Shouldn't you be using one of the command line image optimizers?

Yes and I have done ;-) but.

1 A lot of the front end production staff wont be comfortable using a cli - its designers that should be providing the images not developers.

2 Photoshop in some ways produces better results and is already part of the work flow.

Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%

#84
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you prefer when pages take >10s to load, have interstitial ads covering the content, and have ads that load in while you scroll, causing the content to jump around on you? I'm pretty happy with amp as an alternative to newspapers' awful websites.

Reader view in firefox makes it very fast. Like how the web used to be. It just displays the images/text of the actual content and strips everything else out. I immediately hit that button on most sites now, and they load in under 1s (usually way under). It even has a dark mode! No videos playing, no ads changing in sidebars distracting your eyes, no popups making your click through. Just the content you wanted to se…

Often times the websites are completely broken under reader mode: images are in the wrong locations, image captions are treated as article text, article text doesn't appear on websites that have awful scrolling behaviour.

I completely understand why people have problems with AMP. However, AMP is a drop-in replacement (for the user) and Firefox's reader mode is simply not equivalent, as much as I use it.

Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%

#85
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google AMP on iOS is also much worse than Safari + adBlocker. AMP also leaves out relevant content.

A huge pet peeve of mine was that I'd google for something I once saw on Reddit, or maybe I just wanted to see a certain discussion. Google would identify the correct post, but then I'd either get it in AMP or new-redesign format, both of which present a terrible loss in readability (for the most part). With AMP in particular, there was no obvious link back towards Reddit itself. And with the redesign, the actual dis…

I think the trick is to go to google.com with Desktop Mode (iOS: share page from Mobile Safari then scroll bottom icons left, I think).

That:

(A) gets Google to return desktop links (rather than cruddy mobile links)

(B) gets the site to show the desktop version rather than the cruddy mobile site.

It is more obvious how to do it on Android (google.com in Desktop Mode), but I do it on the iPad at work when needed.

Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%

#86
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very little knowledge is needed to know how to speed up a website (or keep it from becoming slow). Almost every front-ender I've met, including those who never got beyond inserting jQuery snippets, knows enough.

In 16 plus years of consulting I have had precisely 2 occasions when I found a dev team that knew what they where doing.

My experience over a similar time period is that most of what appears to be dev team incompetence...isn't.

It usually maps to constraints they can't control.

Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%

#87
post #64
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might also mean "go to the non-AMP version", which is my main issue with AMP. I'd like to get the non-AMP page to e.g. see user comments (if any) which are often omitted from the AMP version, or for posting the non-AMP URL to friends or social media. Sometimes there is an easy way to go to non-AMP page, depending on how you got there, but most of the time for me there is not. For example, this article just appea…

How to disable AMP permanently on your phone: - stop using Google feed. I can't recommend a one-stop replacement, since I use RSS to follow sites I trust to produce high-quality content and HN to discover new stuff. - stop using other Google products that link to AMP pages. DuckDuckGo is good enough these days. - use Firefox. That in itself might prevent Google search from showing AMP results, if you can't bear to us…

I just thought of this great Ffox addon that I use too. AMP pages are not real web pages. They are awful.

Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%

#88
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Android is all about choice and user empowerment! I disagree, strongly. I believe Android is really more about keeping you in the Google ecosystem. So is AMP, so is Chrome. I'm an Android user, but let's not pretend they are really about "choice and user empowerment." That's just the sales pitch. Every single thing Google creates is to collect information on/from us, because that's their revenue model. Selling our…

Agreed regarding ulterior motives (keeping you in their ecosystem). In the excellent book "In The Plex" by Steven Levy, he talks about Google's motivation of essentially building a browser, mobile OS, etc just to ensure that some other party (like Apple) doesn't cut them out and reduce their search/ad domination. I believe protecting search/ads is at the base of their motives (as is, undeniably, vacuuming up tons of…

> why do so much for open source?

For the low price of working under an open source[1] license, they bought over a decade of support from a large portion of tech industry professionals. Google (along with the other FAANG businesses) was able to simply ask people to supporting their increasingly monopolistic position.

When some of us attempted to warn about the long term consequences of giving Google/etc even more power, we were ignored or accused of being "crazy conspiracy theorists"; with a lot of open projects to use as counterexamples, and not many current, specific examples of Google actually abusing their power, a lot of people simply couldn't believe that Google might be doing anything bad.

Open sourcing anything that overlapped with a competitor's proprietary software was a highly successful strategy to undermine the market and hurt their competitor's revenue. The minimax best move isn't always the move that maximizes your benefit; sometimes it's the move that minimizes your opponent..

[1] Note that while they use FSF/RMS-style free Software, Google generally doesn't license their open source software under the GPL. Their openness has a carefully considered limit.

Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%

#89

Over and over again I'll click a link from Twitter or elsewhere, and in mere moments I'm thinking to myself…waaait a sec, is this another crappy AMP page? It never looks right. It's always "off" in some weird (and sometimes very obvious) way. Nearly every time I go to the real page on the real website, it looks better and functions better. Since I use an ad blocker, it's never a problem for me that the real site migh…

You have hit the nail on the head with this explanation. Just.Say.No!

Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%

#90
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Android is all about choice and user empowerment! I disagree, strongly. I believe Android is really more about keeping you in the Google ecosystem. So is AMP, so is Chrome. I'm an Android user, but let's not pretend they are really about "choice and user empowerment." That's just the sales pitch. Every single thing Google creates is to collect information on/from us, because that's their revenue model. Selling our…

Agreed regarding ulterior motives (keeping you in their ecosystem). In the excellent book "In The Plex" by Steven Levy, he talks about Google's motivation of essentially building a browser, mobile OS, etc just to ensure that some other party (like Apple) doesn't cut them out and reduce their search/ad domination. I believe protecting search/ads is at the base of their motives (as is, undeniably, vacuuming up tons of…

> But that said, why do so much for open source?

It gets them more users for their services if people make use of their open-source libraries that happen to be optimized for Google, e.g. by integrating better with Google's cloud offerings.

> Why not keep big things proprietary?

They do keep big things proprietary. If it directly makes money for Google, you're not going to see it's source code, unless you work for Google.

> Why sell Chromebooks that can be unlocked, put in dev mode, and flashed with FOSS BIOS implementations? Why allow unlocking the bootloader on Nexus and Pixel phones?

Most people don't change their OS ever, so it doesn't really matter whether bootloaders are locked or not. Even if more people did it, many of them would still install Google apps, so it would continue not to matter.

> There's lots of things they do that clearly aren't for the bottom line or just to trap you in their ecosystem (they do offer versions of basically everything for iOS as well, which makes it easier to switch to iPhone even if you are deep in the Google ecosystem).

Google is not in the phone business. Their phones are just funnels for their advertising business. If they were in the phone business, offering those indispensable apps to iOS users would decrease their ecosystem lock-in. But because they're not in the phone business, offering apps for iOS increases their ecosystem lock-in, because even going to Apple, you still stay with Google.

Nexus/Pixel phones exist only as funnels into the Android ecosystem. Android exists only as a funnel into default-installed Chrome, Gmail and Google Search. Chrome itself is a funnel for Google Search, while Gmail's purpose is to make people sign into an account for easier tracking. Then there's the general ecosystem pull of being the one-stop shop for a bunch of online services. But in the end it all boils down to ads.

Because the majority of their products are only funnels, they'll happily cooperate with competitors for some of those products, if that helps them keep people in the wider Google ecosystem. So you get Chrome for iOS, Google Search for Firefox and so on.

When a company seems to be hurting their own bottom line by giving away stuff for free, it's usually because the free stuff isn't that important to them and their real bottom line is elsewhere.

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