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Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

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Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#81

Post by qwerty456127 »

graeme wrote: post #16
benwerd wrote: post #12

This is how I know I would suck in a company like this. Yeah, it's Steve Jobs - but I find the level of reverence on show in this piece to be a little hard to take. It's certainly revealing of the culture there at the time. > And when you can get the time for thoughtful reflection on your idea from a visionary like Steve — well, that’s a good day. Being humble is one thing, but forcing yourself into this kind of fawn…

There have been stories outside Apple of Steve Jobs giving incredibly good feedback in a variety of areas and people being glad to have it. Have you considered the possibility that: 1. Steve Jobs was a couple of standard deviations better at this than almost anyone 2. As such, people were glad to get feedback from him 3. Such ability is rare and hard to identify, and so trying to replicate that structure is nonethele…

What if I'm "a couple of standard deviations better" at "giving incredibly good feedback in a variety of areas" too but lack the rest of Steve Jobs' talents so this "rare and hard to identify ability" feels like the only thing I'm really good at? How do I start a career around this?

Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#82

Post by codeisawesome »

askafriend wrote: post #53
tw04 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like insisting that notes look like a leather bound notebook? I'm confident he had good ideas. I'm also confident he had plenty of horrible ideas... Just like most intelligent humans.

Like someone else said, you can't talk about that decision without talking about the time and context in which it was made. People were being introduced to wildly new concepts and it served to anchor people in familiarity. Today, it's not as useful of an anchor for obvious reasons. Mobile phones and touch interfaces are ubiquitous.

For a moment, I thought you were referring to the authoritarianism/hierarchy as the “anchor of familiarity” - and everything Steve Jobs did in mass-tech as the “wildly new concepts” - you would still be right in the context of the executives and engineers he led.

Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#83

Post by sudhirj »

ALittleLight wrote: post #69
talltimtom wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I'm confident he had good ideas. I'm also confident he had plenty of horrible ideas...” ... as you walk along you path you meet a man. 50% if the time he tells you sage advice that makes you a multimillionaire and 50% of the time he tells you sage advice that doesn’t make you richer. What do you value the mans afvice as? It’s not a cult or a conspiracy when what the other part is selling actually materializes.

Does your evaluation change if, instead of making you fantastically rich his advice makes him fantastically richer?

If everyone has stock options, this isn’t quite true. And not sure about the eningeers, but the execs at Apple seem to be doing pretty well.

Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#84

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

stupidbird wrote: post #79
graeme wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been stories outside Apple of Steve Jobs giving incredibly good feedback in a variety of areas and people being glad to have it. Have you considered the possibility that: 1. Steve Jobs was a couple of standard deviations better at this than almost anyone 2. As such, people were glad to get feedback from him 3. Such ability is rare and hard to identify, and so trying to replicate that structure is nonethele…

He had some priorities that are atypical in CEOs which made him better at making the kind of top-down decisions a lot of companies delegate to committees. It's not particularly rare to have a decent sense of design, but it's rare for someone with a decent sense of design to be in a position to have the final say on mass-produced tech products. Especially true of the 90s and early 00s when Apple was making huge waves.…

Upvoted for "None of this stuff is mutually exclusive". I tend to see a lot of "Steve Jobs was a genius!" vs. "Steve Jobs was a complete asshole!" competing narratives, when I always thought it seemed pretty obvious both were true.

Also, not only is this stuff mutually exclusive, but I think it is also (mostly) orthogonal. I get aggravated when I see or hear folks trying to emulate Steve Jobs' management style and they seem to focus on the asshole part but don't necessarily realize they're missing the genius part (see Elizabeth Holmes).

Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#85

Post by skybrian »

graeme wrote: post #56
skybrian wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hype and celebrity worship (even at the time) make it nearly impossible to distinguish the man from his reputation. So in the end, there are few facts you can point to, just an awful lot of opinions. I mean, you could point to the many products he was involved in, but there are a lot of subjective opinions there too.

There is a vast treasure trove of books, articles, interviews and stories from people that worked with him. Almost all of these include criticism. Your comment gives the impression you've read none of this and only read meta-commentary. Or that you consider any person's story subjective and non-credible. In which case, what would you call a fact? The same standard would apply to any person. (I wouldn't include the Is…

Fair enough. Is there anything you particularly recommend reading?

Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#86

Post by graeme »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #81
graeme wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been stories outside Apple of Steve Jobs giving incredibly good feedback in a variety of areas and people being glad to have it. Have you considered the possibility that: 1. Steve Jobs was a couple of standard deviations better at this than almost anyone 2. As such, people were glad to get feedback from him 3. Such ability is rare and hard to identify, and so trying to replicate that structure is nonethele…

What if I'm "a couple of standard deviations better" at "giving incredibly good feedback in a variety of areas" too but lack the rest of Steve Jobs' talents so this "rare and hard to identify ability" feels like the only thing I'm really good at? How do I start a career around this?

Well, if you truly have that talent, you can probably be a highly successful consultant. Just start charging people for advice. You could start by offering advice for reviews to targeted high profile clients who need it, then seek referrals.

However, the first question to ask yourself is whether you really have that talent. If no one at all offers to pay, you likely don't. I don't mean you're bad at advice, rather instead that you're just not earth shatteringly good at it. Lots of people are good at advice without being able to build a career specifically around that.

Oh also, to be a highly effective consultant other skills would be required too of course. Empathy, business thinking, etc.

Jobs was only able to build a career around it by building companies around him. That's one way, but not easy, and also he had other talents and compulsions and vices that made his path what it was.

Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#87

Post by graeme »

skybrian wrote: post #85
graeme wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a vast treasure trove of books, articles, interviews and stories from people that worked with him. Almost all of these include criticism. Your comment gives the impression you've read none of this and only read meta-commentary. Or that you consider any person's story subjective and non-credible. In which case, what would you call a fact? The same standard would apply to any person. (I wouldn't include the Is…

Fair enough. Is there anything you particularly recommend reading?

I enjoyed Becoming Steve Jobs. Covered the period of Jobs' return to Apple and also his growth of Pixar. His more mature phase, where he was able to nurturr organizations and had less of the unhinged asshole side about him.

https://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Steve-Jobs-Evolution-Visiona...

Haven't read it, but I've heard there is a section of Creativity Inc where Ed Catmull talks about working with Steve and how they operated.

Finally, there's a site that occasionally surfaces here which had stories from the original Mac team. Folklore.org I think? That was a more raw period with more of a mix of immaturity in there.

But all of those have a variety of firsthand accounts.

Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#88

Post by philliphaydon »

misiti3780 wrote: post #24

im glad steve jobs did what he did, because i love my apple products as much as the next person, but everytime i read something like i realize there is no way i would have wanted to work for him even if i was "changing the world". life is simply too short.

This article is the first time I’ve read something abou Steve that makes me think, “I would totally love to work for Steve”

It’s the parts about how Steve conducts reviews. I feel like too many people beat around the bush, when asked a question they get flustered and make stuff up. I actually kinda enjoy being put on the spot. Say I don’t have an answer or give my personal opinion, or be open and honest, or have to come up with ideas and such. I don’t get flustered or bothered if I’m yelled at. I’ve had bosses that I think are worse than what Steve is sometimes described as. But damn if I haven’t enjoyed those reviews or design sessions.

Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#89

Post by foobar1962 »

philliphaydon wrote: post #88
misiti3780 wrote: post #24

im glad steve jobs did what he did, because i love my apple products as much as the next person, but everytime i read something like i realize there is no way i would have wanted to work for him even if i was "changing the world". life is simply too short.

This article is the first time I’ve read something abou Steve that makes me think, “I would totally love to work for Steve” It’s the parts about how Steve conducts reviews. I feel like too many people beat around the bush, when asked a question they get flustered and make stuff up. I actually kinda enjoy being put on the spot. Say I don’t have an answer or give my personal opinion, or be open and honest, or have to c…

I studied photography and one of the teachers was blunt about quality and talent to the point of rudeness. He'd tell people they wouldn't even make a photographer's arsehole, let alone a photographer.

The day he handed back one of my photographs and said "Congratulations, you're now a photographer's arsehole" was a good one.

Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#90

Post by setpatchaddress »

WalterBright wrote: post #80
briandear wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It worked though. Apple is the most valuable American company when measured by market cap. That didn’t accidentally happen.

Steve Jobs is the canonical example of why CEOs matter and are well paid.

Steve Jobs is the exception. Most CEOs aren’t that smart.
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