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Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

nytimes.com

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Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#81

Post by rdm_blackhole »

alphabettsy wrote: post #68
rdm_blackhole wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protesters are not protesting just the taxes on fuel. They protest the fact that taxing fuel is not the solution if you don't provide an alternative mode of transport. Some people live far from the cities, Should they be the ones paying for everybody else and let the people living in the cities without a car not pay their fair share of the burden? The problem with taxing the diesel is that you are telling people that…

I understand your argument, but the people living in rural areas are bigger contributors to pollution since they tend to drive more and live in single family dwellings. Why shouldn’t the actual road users pay the cost of using the road? I agree any industry using fuel should pay an equal tax though.

Some people have no choice but to live in the countryside.

I don't live in France anymore but in the village that I used to live in which was 40km from Paris, the rent for a decent size apartment i.e, not a broom closet was around 700 euros per month.

Many people in France make less than 1800 euros per month.

Which means that in the best case scenario they are left with 1k euro before any basic necessities such as food, electricity, water insurance, phone bill and what not.

The result is that the end of the month they got nothing or barely anything.

So what do people do, they move further away so they can save a few hundred euros in rent, even if that means paying more for fuel because they just want to live a little not just survive!

And guess what, there is a reason that the rent is lower further away from Paris. The reason is that there are no trains, very little buses, so where does that leave those people, they are stuck!

Yet the government comes around and says, you guys are polluting? Well Fk me, what do you want those people to do about it, they just want to survive!

Do you think people are actually waking up in the morning and saying: "Today I am going to spend 60euros to fill up my tank and I am just going to drive in circles for hours to screw up the climate!"

The governments have known about climate change for DECADES, now that it's actually threatening the economies of the world, they decided to react by making people pay their own lack of foresight?

As always, the little guy is getting shafted while the biggest polluters in this world, the freighters, and the airline companies are spared. And for what?

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#82

Post by iso1337 »

mberning wrote: post #28

That is a pretty staggering amount of uncertainty. The US for example looks like it could be anywhere from 0.5% to 4.5%. That is something I would like to know with more certainty before undertaking any major public policies. From a simple triage standpoint it would seem that focusing on developing economies would hold the most promise. China and India are the likely leaders and given the population and current state…

Per-capita emissions are the highest in the US, Canada, and Australia [1]. The US is also the second-largest emitter of CO2. There is much to be gained by focusing on emissions in the US. Unfortunately, most USians would like a large house with yard, 2+ large cars, etc.

Also think about cultural projections -- Hollywood often depicts wealthy people shuttling around in large, inefficient SUVs. These images and aspirations are then transmitted to the rest of the world.

https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/sc...

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#83

Post by wowzap »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #30

It seems to me we are truly and globally fucked: 1. There were just massive protests and riots in France (a relatively ecologically-aware country) due to an increase in the diesel tax of about 8 cents a liter meant to help wean the country off carbon. As a result of the riots, the tax was cancelled. 2. Current US administration is going 180 degrees in the other direction, i.e. doing everything it can to support coal.…

Reducing carbon emissions sounds good until you consider that you could actually just save up some money, move somewhere away from the shore, and live out the rest of your life.

What incentives are the carbon-reducing crowds providing for the common man? Are they going to finally get it together and build affordable housing in our coastal cities? Are they going to let us park electric vehicles or do we have to ride the bike? Can we still use cash or does every business have to be cash free? Are they going to assure that my water is safe to drink or just ban plastic water bottles and let me die? Can we be responsible for our own safety or do we have to live in a police state?

There is there no semblance of choice on the opposing side. It's all or nothing "REDUCE WASTEFUL BEHAVIORS NOW" (but look the other way as we allow business to do whatever they like). Who would ever submit to that? I'd rather plan my contingency now than become a slave to whatever future the bureaucrats decide for us.

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#84

Post by jf22 »

aaron_m04 wrote: post #70
jf22 wrote: post #40

I know cryptocurrencies are popular here but IMHO crypto should be immediately banned before they start generating more and more emissions.

That's a very ignorant opinion, considering that proof-of-stake cryptocurrencies have insignificant emissions.

Sure, there are probably nuances to account for like how much energy generation is used.

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#85

Post by fromthestart »

jf22 wrote: post #43
fromthestart wrote: post #29

If you want proof as to how taboo climate science skepticism has become, look at how quickly (less than ten minutes) my sourced, rational comment in this thread was down voted and flagged. Flagged! For skepticism!

The evidence is overwhelming. There is no way to be a "rational" and "sourced" climate skeptic because all roads lead to the same conclusions. People like you will cause millions of deaths over the next 100 years.

Do you understand how ironically unscientific your thinking is?

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#86

Post by NeedMoreTea »

hwillis wrote: post #32

The article offhand mentions that we're on track for RCP 8.5, or 8.5 W/m^2 additional heat in 2100. That should fucking terrify you. That's 4 C global temperature rise, a .75 meter sea level rise, and a doubling of ocean acidity. Page 82 of the IPCC report[1] has some fast facts- at RCP 8.5 most of the wild animals on earth will start dying out from lack of freshwater. Corals and molluscs will die out, and all ocean…

A decade or two ago I was pretty optimistic. The world came together to phase out CFCs after all, albeit a problem an order or two of magnitude smaller.

Unless things like Extinction Rebellion somehow become mainstream (https://rebellion.earth/) in short order I think we're fucked. I think we have to actually accept we're fucked to start doing enough substantive about it. When we can see that wall we're about to hit in 20 seconds. For fuck knows how many individuals and species that will be too late.

If we were somehow able to provide CO2 free generation and industry for the top 5 emitting countries tomorrow, we'd simply use the glut of oil we now have for additional plastics, chemicals or consumer products. Just like happened with the extra production from fracking in the US. Apparently humanity are simply not capable of leaving it in the ground.

At this point we may as well simply start heating the outside, and buy a bigger car, to use the oil up faster. Why do anything else? Politicians are still wanting continual growth, are still taking pride in the new fracking site, the extra plastic industry that's started up, or their country's record coal exports. Banning a few carrier bags and exporting "recycling" to the developing world is fucking hilarious. The world's political reaction to the IPCC report was predictable.

> At some point I do expect people will start having more serious discussions about how much climate engineering

I figure the point where a substantive reaction will start will be when it's so far gone even the deniers have come around. When it's no longer possible to claim there's no connection between smoking and health. I don't really want to imagine the state of the world when we might achieve that. Maybe that's after the oceans have had the 95% extinction event.

Even HN threads on the topic seem to be increasingly questioning whether it's a problem at all, and "climate's always been changing" etc etc.

Meanwhile the only thing UK govt cares about for the last 2 years is making ourselves an insignificant global laughing stock via Brexit. I think I'm all out of optimism now. :(

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#87

Post by kazen44 »

wowzap wrote: post #83
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #30

It seems to me we are truly and globally fucked: 1. There were just massive protests and riots in France (a relatively ecologically-aware country) due to an increase in the diesel tax of about 8 cents a liter meant to help wean the country off carbon. As a result of the riots, the tax was cancelled. 2. Current US administration is going 180 degrees in the other direction, i.e. doing everything it can to support coal.…

Reducing carbon emissions sounds good until you consider that you could actually just save up some money, move somewhere away from the shore, and live out the rest of your life. What incentives are the carbon-reducing crowds providing for the common man? Are they going to finally get it together and build affordable housing in our coastal cities? Are they going to let us park electric vehicles or do we have to ride t…

you seem to vastly underestimate how impossible "moving somewhere away from the shore" would be for the majority of the world's population.

For instance, my country would be over 50% flooded with a 2 meter searise.

also, countries like bangladesh are truely screwed, and it has a population of 150 million people!

not to mention that climate change would make our global economy collapse and high yield argriculture impossible.

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#88

Post by jf22 »

usaar333 wrote: post #69
jf22 wrote: post #40

I know cryptocurrencies are popular here but IMHO crypto should be immediately banned before they start generating more and more emissions.

Does that have to be the case? Crypto mining can be done in areas with surplus hydroelectric power that can't be efficiently distributed elsewhere.

This is a great point.

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#89

Post by rdm_blackhole »

freeone3000 wrote: post #78
rdm_blackhole wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protesters are not protesting just the taxes on fuel. They protest the fact that taxing fuel is not the solution if you don't provide an alternative mode of transport. Some people live far from the cities, Should they be the ones paying for everybody else and let the people living in the cities without a car not pay their fair share of the burden? The problem with taxing the diesel is that you are telling people that…

"Should they be the ones paying for everybody else and let the people living in the cities without a car not pay their fair share of the burden?" A carbon tax, which taxes carbon, taxes the people who use carbon less, does not sound like users aren't paying "their fair share". They ARE paying their fair share, because they use less. The problem of use-based taxes affecting the poor disproportionately is well-known, b…

The reason that people in cities won't pay the tax is that they have buses and trains available.

That is not available to the people from the countryside.

You can't just say stop polluting but not give any alternative mode of transport for this people.

What about the rest of the people of this the planet who don't live in a city? Should they just shut up and take it?

Easy to say when you are not the one who has to pay.

The NIMBY syndrome in all its splendor.

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#90

Post by jf22 »

fromthestart wrote: post #85
jf22 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The evidence is overwhelming. There is no way to be a "rational" and "sourced" climate skeptic because all roads lead to the same conclusions. People like you will cause millions of deaths over the next 100 years.

Do you understand how ironically unscientific your thinking is?

Only to people who assume science is only about proving something wrong rather than expanding to a better understanding.
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