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Remind HN: Vote

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Re: Remind HN: Vote

#81

Post by wazoox »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #9

I don't know how laws and culture are in the USA, but in my country (Italy) vote is not an obligation. Vote is a right, and a hard earned one. It is also considered a civil duty. But never an obligation. The choice not to vote is also an expression of one's idea: that he does not believe in any of the politicians, or in the system as a whole. Lack of votes is also a measure on how much people believe in politicians.…

> Italy has never been so corrupted in the past (transversally, in every party) as it is now

Are you sure? Did you forget the fall of all the "traditional" political parties 15 years ago or so, and the first rise of Berlusconi?

Re: Remind HN: Vote

#82

Post by pbw »

Of 16,000 congressional elections over the last 100 years only one was decided by a single vote. So in some sense your vote doesn't matter, in that if you didn't vote the result would likely be the same.

But one way every vote contributes is increasing voter turnout. Although your contribution is small, it always counts, no matter who you vote for. Mid-term elections have been averaging 37% voter turnout. As turnout gets smaller election results can drift arbitrarily far away from what the whole population wants, because only a subset is deciding. Corruption and manipulation become easier. High voter turnout is really really important to making the the election a legitimate process.

I wrote about this recently: http://www.kmeme.com/2010/10/why-you-should-vote.html

A thread with other suggestions why voting might be rational: http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/2z6/why_should_you_vote...

Re: Remind HN: Vote

#83

Post by riffic »

tjogin wrote: post #64
cletus wrote: post #7

In Australia voting is mandatory. If you're registered to vote and you don't you can get fined. If no one is registered to vote at your address you'll tend to get lots of mail about it (but ultimately, staying off the electoral roll isn't difficult). I used to think this was a bad idea as it forced people to vote who didn't really care. In recent years I've come around to the opposite point of view based pretty much…

I'm not against compulsory voting, but I'd just like to add that I don't think it's necessary in order to get a good voter turnout. We have voluntary voting in Sweden, and yet we get about 86% turnout. In the US, there are a number of problems with the voting procedure, too many to count really, I think facing and addressing those issues would be far better than making voting compulsory.

this is by design.. obfuscate the process to discourage participation.

Re: Remind HN: Vote

#84

Post by tibbon »

To say that most elections aren't decided by a single vote, and thus your vote doesn't matter; is like saying that no one goes bankrupt over a single dollar, so single dollars don't matter.

If you agree that single dollars don't matter, send your extra ones to me please....

Re: Remind HN: Vote

#85

Post by riffic »

jdub wrote: post #54
cletus wrote: post #7

In Australia voting is mandatory. If you're registered to vote and you don't you can get fined. If no one is registered to vote at your address you'll tend to get lots of mail about it (but ultimately, staying off the electoral roll isn't difficult). I used to think this was a bad idea as it forced people to vote who didn't really care. In recent years I've come around to the opposite point of view based pretty much…

Plus, we vote on Saturday. Weekday voting is incredibly disenfranchising.

In 1845, the United States was largely an agrarian society. Farmers often needed a full day to travel by horse-drawn vehicles to the county seat to vote. Tuesday was established as election day because it did not interfere with the Biblical Sabbath or with market day, which was on Wednesday in many towns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_Day_(United_States)

Re: Remind HN: Vote

#86

Post by devmonk »

riffic wrote: post #83
tjogin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not against compulsory voting, but I'd just like to add that I don't think it's necessary in order to get a good voter turnout. We have voluntary voting in Sweden, and yet we get about 86% turnout. In the US, there are a number of problems with the voting procedure, too many to count really, I think facing and addressing those issues would be far better than making voting compulsory.

this is by design.. obfuscate the process to discourage participation.

I think it is just incompetence. The more you spend time with government, the more you see that, even though we'd imagine they have things under control, they really don't.

Re: Remind HN: Vote

#87

Post by random42 »

mahmud wrote: post #15
cletus wrote: post #7

In Australia voting is mandatory. If you're registered to vote and you don't you can get fined. If no one is registered to vote at your address you'll tend to get lots of mail about it (but ultimately, staying off the electoral roll isn't difficult). I used to think this was a bad idea as it forced people to vote who didn't really care. In recent years I've come around to the opposite point of view based pretty much…

I am Yank, Arab and Somali (I hold three passports) and I will soon be an Aussie, via marriage. I have spent a year in Australia. My feeling is that Aussies are not really as political as Americans. American voting is under-informed and has low turn out, but at least the few percentage of electorate that vote actually care . Aussies .. I am not sure if they don't care, or if they're just good at hiding their politica…

I think its a cultural thing. Most people in the US (In my very uninformed opinion, mostly based on television/movies), are very explicit in their political stand.

In India, its assumed almost sinful to ask for political stance/ "Who are you gonna vote for" in the urban society. (It may be illegal too, not sure)

Re: Remind HN: Vote

#88

Post by ulvund »

Here in Denmark the participation of the electorate in general elections normally lies above 85%.

You receive your voting voucher thing by mail 2-3 weeks before the election.

Re: Remind HN: Vote

#89

Post by ugh »

axod wrote: post #36
mbreese wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the alternative? I can't think of one that is morally acceptable.

Personally I would prefer a monarchy, or some merit based voting system - eg You get a vote if you can demonstrate you have the understanding to make informed decisions.

Monarchy?! Sure, you might be lucky and get a good monarch – but their son could be a total douchebag (like Wilhelm II, the gaffe-emperor who led Germany into World War I). I think that on the whole, elections are less random and more merit based than monarchies.

Re: Remind HN: Vote

#90

Post by riffic »

rrc wrote: post #42

In a perfect system, I would like to see voting require a license. People require a driver's license because uneducated drivers can harm others. Uneducated voters can cause similar harm to others. Taken to the extreme, you could have a direct democracy where individuals vote directly for proposed bills, bypassing the (usually vested) middleman. Voters would have to pass some competency exam on the subject of the bill…

we had this system in the past; it was incredibly racist.

read some history, chap.

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