Live data from Hacker News

How the West Was Digitized: The Making of Rockstar Games’ Red Dead Redemption 2

vulture.com

81–89 of 89 posts

Re: How the West Was Digitized: The Making of Rockstar Games’ Red Dead Redemption 2

#81
post #53
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Request for service: Dad Game Reviews. Games that are fun to play and more engaging than the mindless idlers and puzzles that are out there today but support meaningful episodes of 30-40 minutes.

I think Wired used to have a column like that.

Called what?

Re: How the West Was Digitized: The Making of Rockstar Games’ Red Dead Redemption 2

#82
post #19
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the Internet has quashed my enjoyment of single player games ... it’s like I gotta have a multiplayer competitive at all times , if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears , Meh who cares not fun haha

Interestingly, the Internet has quashed my enjoyment of multiplayer games: so many people are playing them, there's no chance I am going to be able to compete, given that I only play occasionally. When "multiplayer" meant "lan party" or "friends come together and play a skirmish" you actually had a chance, but now? Not so much. I really prefer single player games with a nice story and an action that's not too hectic…

This is why for me, Warcraft 3 and Starcraft were my fondest memories of playing online games. The standard multiplayer was always going to be competitive, but the real wonder was in the custom games. This was before the big wave of indie game creators, so you had a bunch of people churning out interesting and creative games with the WC3 editor. The custom games were most famous for DOTA, but you had genres like Tower Defense which blew up in a big way in the custom game scene.

You had maps like wilderness survival and troll tribes, which, if you've played Don't Starve, feels largely derivative. Footmen Frenzy, Dark Deeds, Sheep Tag, Uther Party (Mario Party ripoff), LAOP, Parasite, Mars Survival, Risk knockoffs, etc. It didn't matter if you sucked at these games, because most people sucked at them; the playerbase for each custom game was pretty small. A good time for novelty - I'm hoping reforged brings back some of that magic from that scene. I played LOL after moving on from Blizzard games (Wow was never my thing), but it wasn't the same. Also, very toxic. Not a great game for casual players.

Re: How the West Was Digitized: The Making of Rockstar Games’ Red Dead Redemption 2

#83
post #11

I haven't played a big-budget game in years, but I decided to give RDR2 a try, specifically because reviewers described it as slow and boring. I think it's great, for the exact reason that other people think it's slow and boring. It's specifically designed to quash your tendency to speedrun or minmax: It requires you to simply come along for the ride. On the one hand, this is a bit annoying sometimes. On the other ha…

red dead redemption was slow as well, but much better paced. at the time, it seems the tech and general style of red dead redemption made a strong departure from gta iv. the gunplay was very fun in my opinion in red dead redemption. the euphoria physics engine was really fantastic. when i got gta v, it was surprising how sluggish and clunky the gameplay was. it seems they didn't keep or integrate any of the tech from red dead redemption. maybe they did, but it wasn't noticeable. gta v was faster paced, particularly the driving, than gta iv, but the gunplay was still the same old. i was worried that red dead redemption 2 would follow more in the footsteps of gta v than red dead redemption, and that seems to have been the case. the gunplay in red dead redemption 2 is noticeably sloppier and more clunky than in red dead redemption 2.

i played red dead redemption for hundreds of hours, both in single player and in the online multiplayer, which was a blast. i haven't even finished red dead redemption 2, and have found myself very bored with the story and side missions. it's the same formula rockstar has used for years, and the AI is as superficial as ever. it can be a real slog riding around between missions. even though the guns look great, they and the aiming system is not as fun as red dead redemption.

Re: How the West Was Digitized: The Making of Rockstar Games’ Red Dead Redemption 2

#84
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the Internet has quashed my enjoyment of single player games ... it’s like I gotta have a multiplayer competitive at all times , if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears , Meh who cares not fun haha

I don't feel that way about single player games, but I do find narrative based games less enjoyable than story-less games/story-poor games where the game play mechanisms are at the forefront: like Enter the Gungeon, the new XCOM, Prison Architect, Oxygen Not Included, KSP etc. Games with stories and narratives feel like chores and are restrictive.

Yeah, I agree, form should follow function, not the other way around.

"This game allows you to pluck chickens / pay respects / become a porn star, that was never possible in a game before!!!", but it's really just that you can press a button to trigger an animation.

That's fun for a while, but seeing a bunch of games and programming a bit, it kinda becomes transparent and samey, and those little touches of realistic decoration are also reminders that they had time for that $animation, but not for this $mechanic. Some people see redheads and blondes and brunettes, I see committees.

Here's a crazy idea: Replace all models by their hitboxes and all textures single colors, remove all ambient sounds, remove all padding from dialogue and let NPC just name the variables they need to have met, and what variables that will set as a result, and so on. A game or a simulation would of course look and sound terrible, but it would still work, while a interactive movie kind of "experience" will be reduced to next to nothing.

Take chess for example, playing with beautiful weighty pieces is certainly more fun than with, say, pieces of paper with letters on them. But if you're good at chess and longing for a good game of chess, you would rather play against an opponent with a similar elo ranking as you with pieces of paper, than against a child or a random number generator with nice chess pieces.

We can rank sciences by "hardness" all day, but the thought of "hard gaming" seems oddly offensive, why? I also noted that no comments seem to reference the article, which is understandable since it's such a fluff piece. And none of the comments are pointing out any gameplay challenge, clever AI, nothing.

> After a few hours, you can almost feel the ego diminution, the sense of “merging with nature or the universe” that Michael Pollan describes in How to Change Your Mind. (And at $60 for a copy, Red Dead Redemption 2 is cheaper than psychedelic drugs.)

60$, then "a few hours" until that effect kicks in, and you become one with "nature and the universe" on the screen.

Just wow. I would feel insulted by that. That's such a low view of both the universe and the time of a person.

> The soundtrack helps, too. You hear sounds of nature, long ambient notes in the wilderness, or the Irish-influenced strain of an antique banjo from a nearby campfire. “We have 192 interactive mission scores, and we thought about the music constantly from the time we brought in [composer] Woody Jackson in 2015,” says Ivan Pavlovich, Rockstar’s music supervisor. “Sam was always asking early on, ‘What’s the feel [of the game]?’ ”

Oh yeah, telling people how to feel about things, what would a good game be without that, right?

> Rockstar’s goal is to “slip as much art under the hood without players noticing it — but they don’t have to notice it,” says Dan. If you want, you can bypass much of the story with just a tap of the controller. “It can just be mud, blood, and gore.”

Mud, blood and gore with cutscenes, or just mud, blood and gore... what about gameplay? All the immersion on the one hand, then slo-mo and auto-aim on the other, and plenty of chores to keep your stats up. A huge map, a million NPC with a few binary flags each, and hours of voice acting. What did I miss? All I heard on youtube is the same I read in this thread, "you can go fishing or hunting" ("move to location X and press button Y"), how it's so immersive and detailed, etc. etc., but nothing about solid gameplay.

Re: How the West Was Digitized: The Making of Rockstar Games’ Red Dead Redemption 2

#85
post #47

Just today I started playing it, and it's really impressive. It's like being in a Cormac McCarty novel. I imagine the pacing, realism, and atmosphere is not for everyone, but if it is your cup of tea this is (so far) a masterpiece in single player gaming.

"a masterpiece in single player gaming."

why?

Re: How the West Was Digitized: The Making of Rockstar Games’ Red Dead Redemption 2

#86
post #47

Just today I started playing it, and it's really impressive. It's like being in a Cormac McCarty novel. I imagine the pacing, realism, and atmosphere is not for everyone, but if it is your cup of tea this is (so far) a masterpiece in single player gaming.

"a masterpiece in single player gaming." why?

Every aspect of the game is gloriously hand crafted. Writing, graphics, sound, etc. But I think what makes RDR2 unique is that it really transports you to a particular point of space and time through the eyes of a character. Visually it's very cinematic, but I feel it's much closer to literature in the way it immerses you into the world, the characters, and the conflicts.

Personally, I've never seen a game with this focus and this level of scope and quality.

Re: How the West Was Digitized: The Making of Rockstar Games’ Red Dead Redemption 2

#87

I used a video's frames of myself playing RDR2 to train a neural network. I then showed it a photo my son took of some cows at the in-law's place. Here's what happened: https://photos.app.goo.gl/sDTofashQdDSUJMdA The network was trained with https://nanonets.com , if anyone is interested. Interesting stuff, given the knowledge came from synthesized horses. I did not train or segment any other entities other than Arth…

There are cows in the game too. Did you use those in your training set?

Re: How the West Was Digitized: The Making of Rockstar Games’ Red Dead Redemption 2

#88
post #11

I haven't played a big-budget game in years, but I decided to give RDR2 a try, specifically because reviewers described it as slow and boring. I think it's great, for the exact reason that other people think it's slow and boring. It's specifically designed to quash your tendency to speedrun or minmax: It requires you to simply come along for the ride. On the one hand, this is a bit annoying sometimes. On the other ha…

If you enjoyed the slower pace I'd recommend Kingdome Come: Deliverance [1]. It doesn't have the same level of polish or the production values of a Rockstar game, but really surprised me with it's realistic, historic, non-magical setting that actually brought something new to the familiar table of open world RPGs.

[1] https://www.kingdomcomerpg.com

Post reply on HN