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Clojure REBL [video]

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Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#81

Post by bitwize »

taeric wrote: post #48
robto wrote: post #11

I just finished watching, and I'm super excited about this idea. There's been a lot of talk in the Clojure community about how to improve documentation, and then Rich comes along and thinks hard about it for a long time and then drops a general purpose data browser. I'm really excited by the possibilities this brings to the table. > This is design work. Thanks Rich. Well said! It feels to me that the power of a whole…

I'm curious on just how new this is. Feels like very similar things have been demoed before in environments like Dr Racket. Still lots of fun, mind you. And anything to bring these environments to more folks. I just worry about things that only demo well if well rehearsed. Which seems to be more technology than makes sense.

This stuff dates back to the Lisp Machine at least. But Clojure is the only relevant Lisp left, so no exciting Lisp technology actually officially exists until Rich Hickey invents it.

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#82

Post by black-tea »

slifin wrote: post #28

I need a Clojure job, their technology seems like it's from the year 3000 and I'm over here in PHP land banging rocks together Their idiomatic database can travel through time, they focus intently on composition, referential integrity, immutability to the database level They have specs which can validate things typically better than types and they compose They focus on shared protocols which gives them amazing levera…

The funny thing is most of this has been available to Lisp programmers since the 80s.

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#83

Post by fnordsensei »

chedine wrote: post #65
chedine wrote: post #62

OK yeah this looks good. Was expecting a tech demo but this is such a sales pitch glorifying a pretty common solution to a pretty common problem. The Intro on eval result not being a data is something that I don't get. If it's not data then what is it? Atleast what is it for the thing that's presenting it? All these while the folks were flaunting how awesome the REPL experience has been and suddenly Stu gives a small…

Unwritten rule of HN is that, one must be a blind supporter of anything clojure, Haskell and must be a blind hater of anything java, Javascript. Downvoters:care to provide reasons??

It's probably the accusational tone and sweeping generalisation coupled with the absence of proof, data, or at least examples to back it up. Also, it doesn't even tangentially touch on the actual subject of the post.

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#84

Post by lispm »

black-tea wrote: post #82
slifin wrote: post #28

I need a Clojure job, their technology seems like it's from the year 3000 and I'm over here in PHP land banging rocks together Their idiomatic database can travel through time, they focus intently on composition, referential integrity, immutability to the database level They have specs which can validate things typically better than types and they compose They focus on shared protocols which gives them amazing levera…

The funny thing is most of this has been available to Lisp programmers since the 80s.

Probably with BBN Lisp (later called Interlisp) in the end 60s.

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#85

Post by mateuszf »

danielneal wrote: post #75
robto wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the exciting thing is the datafy protocol, not necessarily this particular viewer. What he demoed seemed much more like a proof-of-concept. Like he said, he's excited to see what the Clojurescript community comes up with, and so am I. I might take a shot at building a browser in Emacs, though that takes away some more dynamic display opportunities.

An emacs based browser for this would be awesome!

My wild guess is that it will be added rather soon than later to CIDER. The protocols are part of Clojure, and Emacs is great with browsing buffers, so it doesn't seem very hard to implement.

That said I'm not Emacs expert so it may be harder than I imagine.

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#86

Post by TeMPOraL »

bitwize wrote: post #81
taeric wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious on just how new this is. Feels like very similar things have been demoed before in environments like Dr Racket. Still lots of fun, mind you. And anything to bring these environments to more folks. I just worry about things that only demo well if well rehearsed. Which seems to be more technology than makes sense.

This stuff dates back to the Lisp Machine at least. But Clojure is the only relevant Lisp left, so no exciting Lisp technology actually officially exists until Rich Hickey invents it.

Oh come on, there's still the undying Common Lisp, and also Emacs Lisp has a lot of relevance, even if indirectly.

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#87

Post by TeMPOraL »

chongli wrote: post #73
emmanueloga_ wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It still blows my mind [...] the typical response is along the lines of, "but what would you use it for?" [...] When is it not useful to see the data your code is operating on? Status Quo? (the status quo being... print statements?) Another easy example of a long available better model that is still niche/ignored: pipelines in PowerShell [1] are clearly superior in many fronts, but people prefer keep parsing plain…

It shouldn't be such a shock that people prefer text. Text is the universal format. The vast majority of programming tools operate on it. When someone comes up with a new tool, if they support text and STDIN/STDOUT/STDERR then that's it, they're done. PowerShell sounds great and I'm sure there are some people who are very productive with it but it's ultimately a silo. It's never going to be as low-friction to support…

Text is the universal serialization format. Doesn't mean it has to be unstructured, as is the UNIX tradition.

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#88

Post by TeMPOraL »

mateuszf wrote: post #85
danielneal wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An emacs based browser for this would be awesome!

My wild guess is that it will be added rather soon than later to CIDER. The protocols are part of Clojure, and Emacs is great with browsing buffers, so it doesn't seem very hard to implement. That said I'm not Emacs expert so it may be harder than I imagine.

Everything except HTML and charts will be easy - after all, if something can be represented as or drawn with plain text, Emacs is probably the best tool for working with it. HTML has some half-decent previewers available, but those are essentially text browsers in elisp. Unfortunately, painting arbitrary images gets unwieldy with Emacs. You can get away with ASCII column charts, but forget scatter plots or sparklines. But for viewing that, I wouldn't mind an external application to put on another screen.

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#89

Post by jwhitlark »

_halgari wrote: post #32
kickopotomus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes it seems as if Cognitect just doesn't want people to use Clojure. It's like they looked at the results from the survey[0], created a tool that appears to address some of the main gripes that people have, and then proceeded to say "screw you" to all of the people that use Clojure commercially and may actually pay for Datomic... [0]: https://danielcompton.net/2018/03/28/clojure-survey-2018

Closed source I understand, they must have something in there they don't want to give away completely for free. But "no commercial use" just cuts out something like 90% of the user base. Because depending on your definition of those terms it would also apply to anyone building anything with it that they plan on selling in the future. Even paid tutorials on how to use it would be out of the question. It's like "how to…

I was at the talk, and IIRC he said something about developing it while working with a client. It's quite likely it's a contract obligation.

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#90

Post by westoncb »

danysdragons wrote: post #78
westoncb wrote: post #39

Glad to see more work being done on the general purpose data browser concept. I've been spending occasional free moments working on one since 2014[0], and this is the first time I've come across something with any significant overlap in conception[1]. It still blows my mind that I can describe the concept to programmers (and/or show a video demo) and have the most typical response be along the lines of, "but what wou…

It took a look at your first link - Lucidity looks pretty neat, but is there a way to try it out? I didn't see it in your GitHub.

Unfortunately there isn't at the moment. The setup process is still fairly involved. Hopefully in the next couple of months I'll have something easier for others to use.
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