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Why are tech companies making custom typefaces?

arun.is

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Re: Why are tech companies making custom typefaces?

#81

Post by antidesitter »

fsloth wrote: post #66
rangibaby wrote: post #42

Font licensing is rent-seeking bullshit on the level of "Mickey Mouse" copyright extensions and I'm surprised the big foundries have managed to convince everyone that they need to pay for typefaces, which are explicitly copyright-free in every major jurisdiction.

Mickey Mouse is just a character. Font faces can be considered critical technical components in the printing process. If you are using a typeface to print a metric ton of publications, I'm pretty sure you would want it to be engineered to be fit for that purpose. And that the typeface definitions retains its' quality. I would not trust an open source process to maintain a standard of quality. Hence, you need an insti…

> I would not trust an open source process to maintain a standard of quality.

On what basis?

Re: Why are tech companies making custom typefaces?

#82

Post by topynate »

mattferderer wrote: post #72
michaelt wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article contains an image [1] showing several tech-company-funded fonts side-by-side. The fonts have some differences, but I'd have to agree with you the changes are so subtle it's hard to believe they resulted from an attempt to make a _radically_ new typeface. [1] https://www.arun.is/blog/custom-typefaces/unique_typefaces_m...

I'm curious if there are any lawsuits based on basically tracing & duplicating fonts? Does adding the slightest accent to the letter "a" allow you to trace the other 99%. Also many of these look like they just adjusted the weight ever so slightly. With variable fonts, I'm curious how this come into play when considering copyrights.

The shapes of the letters themselves aren't copyrightable in the US, so that if you vector-traced them perfectly, using your own "control points", you could distribute – and in fact, would hold copyright in – the resulting font file.

When discussing copyright "font" doesn't refer to the shapes of the letters (which comprise a "typeface") but the programmatic implementation of that typeface, which has been held to involve independent creativity. So if you take an existing vector font file, and alter the control points, you've created a derived work.

The situation is different in many other countries, which do allow for a copyright in a typeface. Generally the term of copyright is much less for a typeface than for many other works.

Re: Why are tech companies making custom typefaces?

#83

Post by antidesitter »

bovermyer wrote: post #59
rangibaby wrote: post #42

Font licensing is rent-seeking bullshit on the level of "Mickey Mouse" copyright extensions and I'm surprised the big foundries have managed to convince everyone that they need to pay for typefaces, which are explicitly copyright-free in every major jurisdiction.

Just out of curiosity, how would you suggest that foundries make money?

Perhaps the GP is suggesting that they aren’t owed money.

Re: Why are tech companies making custom typefaces?

#84

Post by crispyambulance »

falcolas wrote: post #68
crispyambulance wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think designers have the very challenging job of "threading the needle" between business considerations and aesthetics. Both can be critical depending on the mission. Unfortunately, "subjective" is often used as a dirty word especially around here where some folks even claim to prefer html stripped of all styling. As you pointed out, there is a lot of thought and sweat that goes into the creation of a typeface. The…

> The artistic aspects deserve respect and attention not just from the practitioners but also from their users. As a developer and sysadmin: Let me know how that works for you. End users will rarely if ever recognize your contributions; will only really notice your contribution when it doesn't work. Sorry.

    > Sorry.
Thanks, but no need for the phony apology.

Typefaces, like other graphic elements, might not be felt to the point of the reader explicitly "recognizing" these contributions. Their impact is real albeit subtle. Designers are aware of that but still work really hard anyway.

Re: Why are tech companies making custom typefaces?

#85

Post by H1Supreme »

falcolas wrote: post #68
crispyambulance wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think designers have the very challenging job of "threading the needle" between business considerations and aesthetics. Both can be critical depending on the mission. Unfortunately, "subjective" is often used as a dirty word especially around here where some folks even claim to prefer html stripped of all styling. As you pointed out, there is a lot of thought and sweat that goes into the creation of a typeface. The…

> The artistic aspects deserve respect and attention not just from the practitioners but also from their users. As a developer and sysadmin: Let me know how that works for you. End users will rarely if ever recognize your contributions; will only really notice your contribution when it doesn't work. Sorry.

I worked in graphic design before I made my way into programming full time. My first job was building desktop apps with a team of programmers with very little design sensibilities. As such, there was lots of plain grey, haphazard interfaces. While they functioned fine, they left nearly everything to be desired aesthetically.

I received immediate, positive feedback on my initial contributions. Applying basic design to otherwise "undesigned" interfaces, made a big difference to our users.

While that may be an extreme example, it does highlight the need for design. Whether or not someone can "respect" it, as the OP suggests, is debatable. But, the effectiveness of something designed well, isn't.

Re: Why are tech companies making custom typefaces?

#86

Post by [deleted] »

mattferderer wrote: post #72
michaelt wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article contains an image [1] showing several tech-company-funded fonts side-by-side. The fonts have some differences, but I'd have to agree with you the changes are so subtle it's hard to believe they resulted from an attempt to make a _radically_ new typeface. [1] https://www.arun.is/blog/custom-typefaces/unique_typefaces_m...

I'm curious if there are any lawsuits based on basically tracing & duplicating fonts? Does adding the slightest accent to the letter "a" allow you to trace the other 99%. Also many of these look like they just adjusted the weight ever so slightly. With variable fonts, I'm curious how this come into play when considering copyrights.

[deleted]

Re: Why are tech companies making custom typefaces?

#87

Post by fsloth »

antidesitter wrote: post #81
fsloth wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mickey Mouse is just a character. Font faces can be considered critical technical components in the printing process. If you are using a typeface to print a metric ton of publications, I'm pretty sure you would want it to be engineered to be fit for that purpose. And that the typeface definitions retains its' quality. I would not trust an open source process to maintain a standard of quality. Hence, you need an insti…

> I would not trust an open source process to maintain a standard of quality. On what basis?

On a hunch. I may be wrong.

It seems to me that a font, suitable for printing, is a niche product with a very old history of proprietary providers and craftsmen.

It's this crafts aspect which makes the open sourcing a bit more difficult, IMO. I.e you need specialists to maintain a certain quality.

Re: Why are tech companies making custom typefaces?

#88

Post by azinman2 »

ian0 wrote: post #35
Rotten194 wrote: post #2

I don't think most tech companies actually want a completely custom, radically new typeface. They want a designer to trace Helvetica so they don't have to pay licensing fees.

Wow, I didn't even realise Helvetica needed a licence. Nor that its pay per click: "When purchasing your digital ad license, you specify the number of impressions your campaign will require. If you’re uncertain how many impressions you will need, you can purchase a small allotment and true up at the end of the month." https://www.fonts.com/font/linotype/helvetica/licenses

Fonts are expensive, generally.

Re: Why are tech companies making custom typefaces?

#89

Post by unethical_ban »

falcolas wrote: post #68
crispyambulance wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think designers have the very challenging job of "threading the needle" between business considerations and aesthetics. Both can be critical depending on the mission. Unfortunately, "subjective" is often used as a dirty word especially around here where some folks even claim to prefer html stripped of all styling. As you pointed out, there is a lot of thought and sweat that goes into the creation of a typeface. The…

> The artistic aspects deserve respect and attention not just from the practitioners but also from their users. As a developer and sysadmin: Let me know how that works for you. End users will rarely if ever recognize your contributions; will only really notice your contribution when it doesn't work. Sorry.

As a sysadmin and scripter/micro-framework-user: Assuming a UI's design doesn't get in the way of its function, an attractive UI is much more enjoyable to work with than an ugly one.

Re: Why are tech companies making custom typefaces?

#90

Post by balefrost »

chasedehan wrote: post #78

I’m curious why Ubuntu as a font was included on this list. While it technically is a font, it’s a font shipped with an OS. There is no mention in the article about problems with default fonts shipped with windows or macOS.

San Francisco (Apple's font) is also mentioned.
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