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Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

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Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#81

Post by cauldron »

cauldron wrote: post #69

It's easy to just blame the authorities, but people should also see that almost any existing hurdle in the visa applying process is set up to solve a problem, while it's unfortuanate that these measures have unintended/undesirable effects, it also forestalled many visa fraud attempts. People from certain effectively balck-listed Chinese regions are much harder to get it done. I know here in China people would exploit…

Someone requested me to provide evidence for my claims, but deleted? I'll post it anyway. I'm not a detective and don't have "evidence", all I said is what I saw first hand the accounts of people doing it. It's an entire industry, I'll just keep it simple and short.

Americans genarally don't realize how much their passport worth in other parts of the world.

The key is entering America, any other thing doesn't matter, if you want to smuggle you way in through Russai-Cuba-Mexico etc, you need to pay around 70-100K or something and it's not guaranteed.

So how to legally enter America? Either through universities, medical reasons, or tourism. Like applying any for-profit American language school to "learn English", PHD and extend it endlessly.

Once you entered, you can do what you wanted, to study then go back home, or to earn money, illegal overstaying waiting for citizenship amnesty, or applying for asylum. Chinese make up the majority of asylum seekers there.

The recent hot topic of birth tourism, there are two ways, do it on a tourist visa and be possibly black-listed and visa revoked afterwards; or state your intention to the VO, you need to frame a perfect story here to convince the person that it's a medical cause, agencies will teach you to say American hospitals are better, pain-free whatever, just don't say you want that passport, but in reality all these people are there for the American passport. It's best to delete any related things on your phone such as Wechat opon entering in case evidence of visa fraud were found.

There's also a service that agencies would help you to apply for EB1-A (Alien of Extraordinary Ability), publish paid papers, acquire paid awards etc. It's said (by his former friend) this guy paid audiences to fill an entire American theater for his show to help him apply it. https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article...

You guys remember couple months ago, America said they no longer accept domestic abuse as the reason for asylum? I can't say it's definitely related, but it's a known easy way to get quick green card, you pay for a short term sham marriage, then call the police for domestic abuse, go to court, then you can divorce, not having to wait out 2 years' marriage.

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#83

Post by rukittenme »

falcor84 wrote: post #61
Radim wrote: post #17

Lest you think this is a problem only for Africans & USA: I was denied visa, going to present my paper at NIPS 2010 in Vancouver, Canada. Czech citizen (EU), PhD student at the time, with obvious ties to CZ. I fully respect each country's right to refuse anyone, including without providing a reason (as was the case with me). I see it as "their loss" :-) You pesky computer scientists, stay away!

Regarding the right to refuse anyone, I was of the same opinion myself but mostly changed my mind after reading this article posted on HN: http://www.owl232.net/papers/immigration.htm I now find this to be a very interesting and subtle ethical question

Really? What aspect of his argument convinced you?

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#84

Post by andybak »

logicchains wrote: post #64
andybak wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never met a scientist I could imagine making a hiring decision based on race. Do you mean "race would never have any effect on their hiring decision" - even unconsciously? There's a fairly robust body of work on the topic of unconscious bias that would have to be almost entirely invalid for that statement to be true.

>Do you mean "race would never have any effect on their hiring decision" - even unconsciously? By "making a decison based on race" I mean making a conscious decision in which race is a significant factor. If you want me to be more specific, I'll restate that as: in my estimation, any racial bias that may exist among the scientists I've met is not significant enough to in aggregate result in a difference greater than…

I find your answer confusing. You initially clarify that you're talking about conscious decisions but your later claim is broad enough to include both conscious and unconscious bias.

I might agree that conscious racial bias is rare but I would find it harder to accept that unconscious racial bias is as uncommon as you claim. Does that sound reasonable?

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#85

Post by shmel »

zeist wrote: post #52
elil17 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you don’t have to actually have sex to be arrested for homosexuality

Sure, because they would try to prosecute a foreigner for his sexuality during a science conference.

Oh well, just recently there was a thread about Canadians instructed to lie on US border that they never ever tried weed in their life unless they want to be banned. What makes you believe the same logic can't be applied here?

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#86

Post by Ar-Curunir »

beginningguava wrote: post #65
gmueckl wrote: post #28

Stories like this make me realize how unfairly privileged I actually am by having the passport that I have. I can go damn near anywhere in the world without much fuss. But I was just lucky enough to be born on the right side of some line that somebody drew on a map at some time in the past. The folks a few km distant - on the other side of that line - don't have that same luxury. It is kind of sad that we have this w…

>It is kind of sad that we have this way of carving up the world into arbitrary pieces and calling us "us" and them "the enemy". It's not arbitrary, our ancestors in many cases fought and died to establish those lines so that they could live their lives how they wanted within those lines. They worked hard so that their children and grandchildren and fellow citizens could have better lives within those lines. To disco…

In the USA's case it's more like "committed mass genocide to win land"...

Doesn't sound so noble then, eh?

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#87

Post by Ar-Curunir »

y4mi wrote: post #78
rtpg wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality of these lines are usually less noble than you describe in many cases. As an example, if you read about the motivations of specific actors in the American revolutionary war, many of the top dissenters were basically interested in not paying taxes and being the boss of their own piece of land (instead of having oversight from across the pond). Nobody is ethically pure, of course, but the main push for the…

thats absolutely true for america. he might've been from europe though, and we really did have ... a lot of blood wasted to draw out these lines... we kept killing each other for them

That still isn't noble.

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#88

Post by denzil_correa »

beginningguava wrote: post #65
gmueckl wrote: post #28

Stories like this make me realize how unfairly privileged I actually am by having the passport that I have. I can go damn near anywhere in the world without much fuss. But I was just lucky enough to be born on the right side of some line that somebody drew on a map at some time in the past. The folks a few km distant - on the other side of that line - don't have that same luxury. It is kind of sad that we have this w…

>It is kind of sad that we have this way of carving up the world into arbitrary pieces and calling us "us" and them "the enemy". It's not arbitrary, our ancestors in many cases fought and died to establish those lines so that they could live their lives how they wanted within those lines. They worked hard so that their children and grandchildren and fellow citizens could have better lives within those lines. To disco…

We do not have any influence on which side of the line we are born : that's purely luck.

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#89

Post by rocky1138 »

pjc50 wrote: post #31
_jgdh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Daniel and the amazing work he’s done over the last several years ... but that blog reads like a parody. He’s complaining about filling forms like it’s the worst thing that’s ever happened to him. Meanwhile, for folks who aren’t American/Canadian/European/Australian, this is just a regular Tuesday. Typically when I file for visas I have to give detailed statements of all my bank accounts, all my investments, m…

I think the point is that nobody should be subjected to that level of intrusive bureaucracy.

I disagree. Someone who wishes to claim asylum or intends to move to a country for life should be subject to a high level of scrutiny.

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#90

Post by denzil_correa »

Markoff wrote: post #80
sandGorgon wrote: post #12

not sure why they dont do India - has significant consular presence in African countries (african medical tourism is huge in India) as well as being much easier to reach from Western countries. We also have constitutional protection for LGBT communities and privacy - something that Ethiopia lacks. The Indian govt will throw money at you if you do something like this here.

India has viavisa even for EU citizens and i had personal interview with consul to get tourist visa, heck even Iran was easier

When did you last travel to India? This has changed in the last 3 years or so. You can get a visa sitting in front of your computer.

https://indianvisaonline.gov.in/evisa/tvoa.html

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