The State of JavaScript 2018 • Hacker News Board

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#81

Post by Shamar » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 10:55 AM UTC

This is very interesting: https://2018.stateofjs.com/javascript-flavors/overview/#tool...

Nearly 70% of JavaScript developers have less than 10 years of experience (with an average of 8.3 years).

This means they have never seen a Web where JavaScript was optional and Web developers were used to test their projects without it.

This in turn explains their outraged reactions to anybody that dare to point out its severe vulnerabilities.

See

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1487081

https://dev.to/shamar/the-meltdown-of-the-web-4p1m

https://dev.to/shamar/i-have-been-banned-from-lobsters-ask-m...

https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/9v5qst/1487081_und...

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#82

Post by gear54rus » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 10:59 AM UTC

de_watcher wrote: post #73

gear54rus wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...yes it is?

Using JS through time is like observing a freshman student who discovers new stuff in old books. Amusing, but we've got better things to do.

well it's certainly better than listening to ranting retrograde gramps

"zomg new framework, I have to LEARN again :("

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#83

Post by Vinnl » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 10:59 AM UTC

daliusd wrote: post #61

ksec wrote: post #18

People are generally happy with the development of JS the trends of always improving languages along with frameworks makes developing with JS makes developer increase in happiness for the third time in a row. ES6 is good, TypeScript is gaining ground, people are moving away from Flow. Angular is dead? Most don't even want to touch it again ( Great ). Ember hasn't moved a bit in three years with a declining of interes…

> TypeScript is gaining ground, people are moving away from Flow. Is it really the case? Both projects are watched and have quite big number of stars in github. I have tried flow and liked it. I have used typescript in the past and I'm not crazy about it. Therefore I would like to get better understanding here. Is there anything I could read about it?

I don't have hard data, but a large part of this is probably ecosystem. TypeScript updates more often and, most importantly, almost every relevant library has TypeScript type definitions available. Interesting hard data would be the percentage of popular libraries with TypeScript type definitions available vs. those with Flow definitions available. I'm quite sure that would heavily tilt towards the former, though.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#84

Post by Vinnl » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 11:01 AM UTC

ksec wrote: post #18

People are generally happy with the development of JS the trends of always improving languages along with frameworks makes developing with JS makes developer increase in happiness for the third time in a row. ES6 is good, TypeScript is gaining ground, people are moving away from Flow. Angular is dead? Most don't even want to touch it again ( Great ). Ember hasn't moved a bit in three years with a declining of interes…

> And my biggest surprise is how Javascript turned from one of the most hated programming language ( besides PHP ? ) into being acceptable and loved.

I think a primary reason for this is that Javascript first was a language that was easy to hate because mistakes couldn't be fixed - "don't break the web" and all that. The community then found a way to improve it without breaking the web: add improvements with different syntax, and let your editor/build system/whatever use a linter to deprecate the old syntax from your personal codebase. It's greatly improved in that way and now easily holds a candle to other long-term popular languages.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#85

Post by Nimelrian » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 11:02 AM UTC

Shamar wrote: post #81

This is very interesting: https://2018.stateofjs.com/javascript-flavors/overview/#tool... Nearly 70% of JavaScript developers have less than 10 years of experience (with an average of 8.3 years). This means they have never seen a Web where JavaScript was optional and Web developers were used to test their projects without it. This in turn explains their outraged reactions to anybody that dare to point out its severe…

I think your link regarding experience should be this: https://2018.stateofjs.com/demographics/years-of-experience

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#86

Post by jaxondu » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 11:06 AM UTC

daliusd wrote: post #61

ksec wrote: post #18

People are generally happy with the development of JS the trends of always improving languages along with frameworks makes developing with JS makes developer increase in happiness for the third time in a row. ES6 is good, TypeScript is gaining ground, people are moving away from Flow. Angular is dead? Most don't even want to touch it again ( Great ). Ember hasn't moved a bit in three years with a declining of interes…

> TypeScript is gaining ground, people are moving away from Flow. Is it really the case? Both projects are watched and have quite big number of stars in github. I have tried flow and liked it. I have used typescript in the past and I'm not crazy about it. Therefore I would like to get better understanding here. Is there anything I could read about it?

Don’t have to take the survey so seriously. It’s not representative of all JS community. My circle of JS hackers don’t even bother to participate.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#87

Post by js4ever » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 11:07 AM UTC

I believe JS will be the universal language in the next 5 to 10 years. Other languages will continue to exist but 90% of developers will do JS... I can't wait to quote myself in the future :p

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#88

Post by ghego1 » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 11:12 AM UTC

sgdesign wrote: post #28

tommyjepsen wrote: post #24

Is "Angular's Popularity Over Time"'s bad stats based on combining Angularjs and Angular2 into one?

In previous surveys we had both Angularjs and Angular, but starting this year we stopped making the distinction. So yes, the "bad" stats include both versions. It's not perfect but we thought it was best to just bite the bullet and combine both going forward.

I think that mixing up AngularJS and Angular (>= 2.x.x) is misleading. They are two different frameworks, so little knowledge can be inferred by combining the data about the two. As an Angular Dev the most frustrating thing when v. 2 came out was precisely the fact that I had to re-study from scratch all the documentation. As a matter of fact I've used AngularJS since v. 1.1.x (2013) and I then switched to Angular (latest release) as soon as v. 2 came out, and I would definitely answer I'd use it again, but then if you asked me if I would use AngularJS, I would say definitely not.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#89

Post by leeman2016 » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 11:12 AM UTC

Really used to hate JS in the years before 2012/13. I struggled on moving away from desktop development to web app development.

Then in later years found React/JSX/Redux, Typescript and VSCode ... and started loving it.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#90

Post by markmark » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 11:13 AM UTC

stock_toaster wrote: post #21

s_kilk wrote: post #5

Ouch, the ratio of "would use again" to "would not use again" on AngularJS stunning, if not surprising: https://2018.stateofjs.com/front-end-frameworks/overview/

Wasn't there some kind of huge upgrade pain between versions (v1 to v2 I think it was) for people? I vaguely remember talking with some folks at work who were trying to upgrade at one point, and they ended up changing frameworks entirely (to react) because the effort to upgrade was considered "about the same as a rewrite".

v1 and v2 were completely separate frameworks with essentially no upgrade path.

I don't know anyone who used angular v2+ (although I'm sure many did) but have personally been on two teams who ported to react. It burned a lot of people.