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Ask HN: Dontrecruit.me – A website to collect stories about bad recruiters

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Re: Ask HN: Dontrecruit.me – A website to collect stories about bad recruiters

#81

Post by deathanatos »

csmattryder wrote: post #39
peteradio wrote: post #14

I am green to working with recruiters. What should I watch for? I already do not like the experience but I don't know if that's a problem with me or them.

- Recuiters aren't your friends, they're salespeople, selling you. - Don't stick your CV on a job board, there's no expiry and recuiters will call up wondering if you're still unemployed three years later. - Never answer "how much are you currently on?". You should always say "I'm looking for $X" - feel free to give a range, but keep the ball in your court. Check glassdoor/linkedin to make sure you're not blagging fo…

> - Never answer "how much are you currently on?". You should always say "I'm looking for $X" - feel free to give a range, but keep the ball in your court.

(IANAL.) Know your locale's regulations here. For example, in California, it is not legal for an employer to ask about prior salary[1]:

> (b) An employer shall not, orally or in writing, personally or through an agent, seek salary history information, including compensation and benefits, about an applicant for employment.

> (c) An employer, upon reasonable request, shall provide the pay scale for a position to an applicant applying for employment.

(CA LAB §432.3[2].)

(The advice in the comment I'm replying to is good, too. This isn't meant to contradict it.)

[1]: https://www.sfgate.com/business/networth/article/New-law-ban...

[2]: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xh....

Re: Ask HN: Dontrecruit.me – A website to collect stories about bad recruiters

#82

Post by tristor »

I don't respond to recruiters anymore, I just delete the email or ignore the message on LinkedIn. The only way I will respond is if they specifically name drop someone I know who recommended they reach out. If I want to talk to your company, I probably already know someone who works there and will reach out internally because I want to know the real scoop of how things work, not the rose-tinted version the recruiter will give me for a commission.

Re: Ask HN: Dontrecruit.me – A website to collect stories about bad recruiters

#83

Post by deathanatos »

bunderbunder wrote: post #27
sigfubar wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recruiters - not candidates - are the ones who blast poorly targeted spam. They should show us the money first, not the other way around.

I don't think it works that way from their perspective. For boiler room recruiters in particular, they maximize their return on effort by blasting email like that. They don't want to waste time on people who are content with their current job and might be all goldilocks-y about potential new employers. They want to be talking to people who want a new job so badly that they're willing to respond to spammy recruiter em…

This might be true, but I still think there's a market for people who might not be content, but aren't so malcontent that they want to go through these recruiters that can't get basic information like the name of the company, what the company does, how much it pays, etc. in an email. Heck, I would think that even if you're mass mailing a copy/pasted template, having a good hook in there would get more hits — and that's perhaps what irks the rest of us. We'd like to be hooked… but this is like a bad late night commercial, and we're expecting something more mid-day and professional (but still a commercial).

These recruiters sure they're not sitting on a local maxima?

Re: Ask HN: Dontrecruit.me – A website to collect stories about bad recruiters

#84

Post by 52-6F-62 »

peteradio wrote: post #14

I am green to working with recruiters. What should I watch for? I already do not like the experience but I don't know if that's a problem with me or them.

They're not all bad. I prefer in-house recruiters because they tend to work with you better and stay in contact even if the company or you decide to go another route.

Now outside recruiters...

I've had some outright demand my salary information so that they can sell me for the right price. Just be clever enough not to disclose that.

It's entirely a business interaction and not a friendship. They want something out of you, and you may want something out of them.

It helps if you can honestly say you want $X and that you're already interviewing with other companies under that expectation.

If you don't need to, don't needlessly sign up for interviews and tests with positions that don't particularly interest you for any reason.

I've also been bait-and-switched before. There's not too much you can do about that. But if they pull that, you know to end the discussion there.

It's not supposed to be a zero-sum relationship, but sadly many will sell you to the lowest bidder if that means a commission.

All that said, don't shut off completely if you don't want to. I engage casually from time-to-time. I'll give them a 15 minute call sometimes if my curiosity gets the better of me.

And all of that said, it's much better speaking directly with the people you'll be working with or for.

Re: Ask HN: Dontrecruit.me – A website to collect stories about bad recruiters

#85

Post by projectramo »

benbristow wrote: post #72
jcadam wrote: post #20

I particularly love recruiters who insist that you send them a resume in MS Word format, so that they can remove your contact details and stick their agency's ugly letterhead on top (or "improve" your resume for you if they're particularly unethical). "I'll need your resume in Word Format." "I can give you a PDF" "Give me the original in Word Format." "There is no original in Word Format, I wrote my resume in LaTeX.…

Probably 'ghosted' for mentioning the word 'latex'

That's a good point. They may have been ignorant of the technology and thought OP was making a lewd joke!

Re: Ask HN: Dontrecruit.me – A website to collect stories about bad recruiters

#86

Post by michaelt »

xtracto wrote: post #32

"They Insisted to know my current salary" "They refused to talk about compensation" Working outside of the USA, these two are kind of weird. When I am hiring someone, I want to know their current salary to know that I won't offer them a low salary + benefits package. I have ranges depending on positions, and if after evaluating someone she falls into the "mid level" category, I want to make sure that their expectatio…

  Or how does it work in the USA?
Apply a simple model of economically rational actors, ignoring everything like working conditions and benefits and how inspiring a project is and what is fair and what your corporate pay policies are and so on. We're both happy to work together. i.e. consider a pure salary negotiation.

Situation A: If I currently make $70,000 and you are looking to pay $40,000-$50,000 we're both wasting our time by keeping quiet.

Situation B: If I currently make $70,000 and you are looking to pay $70,000-$100,000 and I reveal my salary first, you can offer $70,000 and I might have left $30,000 on the table.

Situation C: If I currently make $70,000, you are looking to pay $70,000-$100,000, you reveal your range first and I say my requirements are $100,000, you have left $30,000 on the table.

And why would I feel I was leaving money on the table? Maybe I've seen posts on HN saying "many" mid-career Google employees earn $450,000.

The traditional HN advice to refuse to name a salary first comes from people who prioritise avoiding Situation B, even if it means increasing the risk of Situation A.

Re: Ask HN: Dontrecruit.me – A website to collect stories about bad recruiters

#87

Post by bunderbunder »

deathanatos wrote: post #83
bunderbunder wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it works that way from their perspective. For boiler room recruiters in particular, they maximize their return on effort by blasting email like that. They don't want to waste time on people who are content with their current job and might be all goldilocks-y about potential new employers. They want to be talking to people who want a new job so badly that they're willing to respond to spammy recruiter em…

This might be true, but I still think there's a market for people who might not be content, but aren't so malcontent that they want to go through these recruiters that can't get basic information like the name of the company, what the company does, how much it pays, etc. in an email. Heck, I would think that even if you're mass mailing a copy/pasted template , having a good hook in there would get more hits — and tha…

There is. And there are recruiting firms that specialize in that market, too. I've gone through one to get a job before, and it was a great experience.

You aren't going to encounter them nearly as often, though, precisely because they aren't just spamming indiscriminately. Also because there are fewer of them recruiting for fewer positions. The hiring company needs to be willing to pay for that level of service.

Re: Ask HN: Dontrecruit.me – A website to collect stories about bad recruiters

#88

Post by bastard_op »

I remember a little site called fuckedcompany.com circa 1999 that was a great dirt rag on businesses in the bay area at the time to know whether or not to go work there. People started disclosing way too much info about companies and people in particular, and lawyers came out with fangs bared. It didn't end well for the people running the site, but it was sad to see go eventually. Now there's glassdoor, a cleaner version it, with less vitriol (unfortunately).

Re: Ask HN: Dontrecruit.me – A website to collect stories about bad recruiters

#89

Post by projectramo »

seanhunter wrote: post #13
ForHackernews wrote: post #3

Why do recruiters insist on phone calls for everything? Why can't they just send an email? I can't get on the phone while I'm at my job to talk to you about some other job.

It's as bad if not worse if you have decision-making power at a place which is hiring and therefore are a client or potential client. For example, I (reluctantly) agreed to have coffee with a recruiter next week. I'm not looking for a job - he wants to be put on our preferred supplier list. So now he sends me an email - he wants to have a quick catch up call before we meet for coffee. Since I think having coffee with…

I usually say I would be happy to meet (or call or whatever), but what is the call about.

If they are good, they'll lay out everything they want to cover and be upfront. Sometimes, this works well and I'll bite and accept the service or we will know right away it won't work.

The worst is when the person thinks they want to build a relationship first and hang out and talk about other things and then they'll tell me what they want to do. I simply won't give someone I just met some business just because (or if) I like them.

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