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Brexit: UK and EU 'agree text' of draft withdrawal agreement

bbc.com

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Re: Brexit: UK and EU 'agree text' of draft withdrawal agreement

#81

Post by AstralStorm »

makomk wrote: post #46
SirHound wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you are arguing in bad faith (or ignorance). British immigration policy is British immigration policy because as per European law it has mechanisms to prevent benefit immigration that is isn’t exercising https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:... The fact is successive governments have rightly identified that both skilled and cheap labour from immigration is keeping our economy afloat. Otherw…

The EU Commission's position, if I remember correctly, is that all those mechanisms cease to apply as soon as the person gets so much as one temporary job of any length within the country they're moving to and that the host country must give them full benefits entitlement from that point forward.

No, that requires full citizenship in one of the member states.

The only problem in preventing illegal immigration since internal border checks are reduced, but UK cash have the border restored to higher scrutiny without running afoul of Schengen.

What the Brexit move actually does is prevent influx of Polish, Czech, Greek, Spanish, Italian etc. citizens into UK... Move of German immigrants into UK is almost certainly of no concern.

Re: Brexit: UK and EU 'agree text' of draft withdrawal agreement

#82

Post by AstralStorm »

makomk wrote: post #79
zmb_ wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to movement of workers comes from the treaties and the ECJ decisions[0]. The basic outline is as follows: 1) You have a right to stay in another member state (host) for three months without any restrictions. 2) After three months, if you are not (self-)employed, restrictions can be placed on you. In particular, hosts will require you to prove sufficient resources to support yourself, including health insura…

In theory host countries can require you to prove sufficient resources to support yourself, including health insurance. The problem is that this only really works for countries whose healthcare is structured as insurance in the first place, like the continental European states do; no-one has figured out a sensible way to apply this to the UK's single-payer, free at the point of use healthcare. Non-EEA nationals who a…

What? UK cannot just ask for an income statement or the you live as a proof, that's what you're saying?

Moreover the migrant worker has to pay tax in the country they're living in, so tax statement may be good enough.

Most of EU has "single payer, free at point of use" healthcare rather than US model of insurance.

And if they're not working, they can be elected after three months. Is three months slip enough to even put a dent in NHS budget? I'd say not at all. It's not like people are migrating to UK to get temporarily better healthcare. (It sucks compared to almost every other EU country.)

Additionally, for temporary stays, UK can probably demand reimbursement from the member country of origin.

Re: Brexit: UK and EU 'agree text' of draft withdrawal agreement

#83

Post by TomMarius »

anticensor wrote: post #78
TomMarius wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but the US is a federation. The EU people don't want that.

EU is slowly progressing towards it anyway. Why else did European Army works start?

I'm not saying it's not - I'm saying that there is a certain non trivial amount of people that doesn't like it.

Re: Brexit: UK and EU 'agree text' of draft withdrawal agreement

#84

Post by makomk »

AstralStorm wrote: post #82
makomk wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory host countries can require you to prove sufficient resources to support yourself, including health insurance. The problem is that this only really works for countries whose healthcare is structured as insurance in the first place, like the continental European states do; no-one has figured out a sensible way to apply this to the UK's single-payer, free at the point of use healthcare. Non-EEA nationals who a…

What? UK cannot just ask for an income statement or the you live as a proof, that's what you're saying? Moreover the migrant worker has to pay tax in the country they're living in, so tax statement may be good enough. Most of EU has "single payer, free at point of use" healthcare rather than US model of insurance. And if they're not working, they can be elected after three months. Is three months slip enough to even…

No, the UK can't ask for an income statement - the rules only require that people can prove they have enough money to live on. No, they don't have to pay tax - that only happens if they have income. No, this isn't limited to three months - that's only the point where they have to prove they can support themselves in order to remain. And whilst most of the EU doesn't use the US model of insurance, the state-run healthcare in the other EU states is generally set up as a state-operated "insurer" which you have to pay into for coverage. The UK is pretty much unique in funding healthcare from taxes and giving access to all residents for no extra charge.

Re: Brexit: UK and EU 'agree text' of draft withdrawal agreement

#85

Post by rosbrith »

makomk wrote: post #80
lozenge wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, they're just blustering. Nobody would be crazy enough to let the UK crash out with no deal. Err... I hope...

Last I heard, other MPs so keen to make sure that the UK wouldn't go for No Deal, they were threatening to make sure that the government couldn't get the changes to law required to make it possible through: https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1061897525467234304 Of course, this doesn't stop No Deal from happening, because it happens automatically on March 29th unless something changes... but it does ensure that it…

I think most of the press would rather seek to continue blaming the EU for not acceding to the UK's demands and remainers for failing to give Brexit their full support.

Re: Brexit: UK and EU 'agree text' of draft withdrawal agreement

#86

Post by dogma1138 »

clort wrote: post #25
dogma1138 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corbyn wants Brexit to happen he’ll whip Labour into passing it.

Thats interesting do you have a reference for that? There is a lot said about Jeremy Corbyn and I've noticed that a lot of the mainstream media (even left-wing like the Guardian) are very against him and have been vocal about everything he stands for, which I find interesting. This article, https://www.politico.eu/article/jeremy-corbyn-brexit-referen... from 2016 says that he thought at that time we should stay in EU…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Jerem...
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