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Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

nytimes.com

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Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#81

Post by theptip »

danans wrote: post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

I agree with your comment, but this is the law already.

I'm strongly in favour of more scooters/e-bikes in the city (and fewer cars), and I'm also strongly in favour of writing tickets for anyone who is antisocial enough to ride on the sidewalk.

If traffic cops spent a week or two rigorously enforcing the law, I bet you'd see a sharp drop-off in this behaviour.

(However given the number of cars, including cop cars, that I see blocking intersections after the lights change, I'm not sure that there's really a commitment to enforcing traffic laws in SF, even where this would be a revenue-generating activity).

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#82

Post by mgraczyk »

the_watcher wrote: post #9
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traffic These are great ideas. Write them into your representatives. Designated street-side scooter parking would also be a plus. Not only does it signal to drivers "consider another option," it also deals with the scooter litter problem. (To form, San Francisco chose the worst of all option…

I was just in LA, and scooters are everywhere. However, they're all parked upright, and in most cases even organized into a nice, out of the sidewalk path, line (initially I thought that Bird/Lime/etc were paying people to do this, but I saw a mix of different brands aligned as often as just one). When they first launched in LA, this wasn't the case, it was just as much of a free for all as SF. SF succumbed to regula…

Counterpoint, I live in downtown SF and walk everywhere (Lived in lower polk, work in fidi, now live in Nob Hill). Even at their peak, I never once had a scooter in my way. Characterizing the situation here, even at its worst, as a "free for all" is a gross exaggerating.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#83

Post by TulliusCicero »

qudat wrote: post #41
danans wrote: post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

I disagree. Bike lanes are extremely dangerous for cyclists and the current implementation of bike lanes in this country are really just big automobile lanes. It puts all the risk on the cyclist. I have had numerous friends get hit and run while riding bikes on bike lanes, most recently a friend died from it. I'll happily receive any citations for riding my bike or e-scooter on the sidewalk, and take full responsibil…

That's why you specifically need physically protected bike lanes. Painted bike lanes are nearly worthless.

Nobody would accept having "painted walk lanes" instead of sidewalks, but for some reason this is considered an acceptable norm for bikes.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#84

Post by samstave »

wafflesraccoon wrote: post #70
TylerE wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start doing dumb shit? I've been seeing cyclist blow through stop signs for 30 years.

Personal anecdote, cyclists blow through stop signs because the infrastructure isn't built for bicycles. Having to come to a stop and then start up on a bicycle is the hardest part and cyclists hate it. Source: Commuting to work on a bicycle for years.

Exactly.

People who don't bike don't understand.

Imagine having to effectively park you car every single time a stop was legally required.

All moving vehicles should be operated safely, but obeying a stop sign, just because its a stop sign isnt always safe, or efficient.

@drRogers below me...

To anyone bitching about stop signs, they should be bitching about the lack of roundabouts.

There are myriad ways to design infra for non-stoppage cyclists.

How about we have entire zones where cars arent even allowed? If this were the case, then you'd have to design around mobility that didnt involve cars.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#85

Post by dec0dedab0de »

samstave wrote: post #76
grandmczeb wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cyclists constantly break the law in literally every city I’ve ever seen cyclists in. As long as they’re being safe, I don’t really blame them either - very few cities are designed with cyclists in mind and the letter of the law is usually hugely inconvenient.

Seriously, I have been a cyclist for a decade. Saying things like "blowing through a stop sign" is stupid in the vast majority of cases, as stopping can actually be more unsafe. Also, its so freaking tiresome to assume that every single human being is a fucking moron. Cyclists have all their faculties, they can see, hear, move, discern. Thus, they are making a judgement to "blow through" a stop-sign in the same way a…

This reminds me of one time at an old job in Philadelphia. We had a visitor from California, and we were walking with them to lunch, and they were stunned that we ignored the traffic lights. I told them to look at the cars not the lights, because the lights have no real bearing on whether or not a car is coming. Which in turn reminded me of this George Carlin bit:

As an example of how hopeless California is, when I first got there, a policeman gave me a ticket for jaywalking. You have to understand the kind of people who live in California. They are willing to stand, passive and inert, on a curb, when absolutely no traffic is coming, or maybe just a little traffic that could easily be dodged. They simply stand there obediently and wait for an electric light to give them permisiion to proceed. I couldn't believe this cop. I laughed at him. The ticket cost me twenty dollars in 1966. Since that time, I figure I have jaywalked an additional thousand times or so without being caught. Fuck that lame-ass cop! I've managed to pro-rate that ticket down to about two cents a jaywalk.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#86

Post by tln »

Sephr wrote: post #58

Am I the only one who wants to see more seated scooter innovation? I would much prefer riding one of these self-balancing scooters/microcycles to the standing scooters that everyone is using. 1. http://rynomotors.com (launches April 16, 2019) 2. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/newest-fat-tyre-elect... 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcZk9zn82-g

Why not just rent/ride an ebike? Once you put a seat on a normal 2-wheeled scooter it's not much smaller than a bike.

I'm not sure I'd trust the balancing capabilities of the unicycles you've linked to, especially in the face of shitty roads. Have you tried one?

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#87

Post by danans »

randyrand wrote: post #37
komali2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody follows these rules. Whenever a skater is coming at me I very much get a "get the fuck out of my way, peasant" vibe. That's why I believe they should be enforceable rules aka laws.

I follow them. You really have no choice if you care about your own and others safety.

> if you care about your own

Given how few of the riders are wearing helmets, they seem to at the very least be unaware of the risks they are taking.

> ... and others safety.

Power is intoxicating. Being in a more powerful vehicle on a surface shared with other less powerful vehicles makes some people ignore others' safety, or discount the way in which their actions imperil others.

Anyone who has ridden a bike/motorcycle in regular traffic can attest to that experience around cars: you assume you are invisible to them. I've seen many high-powered cars/trucks/motorcycles swerving and accelerating dangerously around less powerful vehicles in traffic.

Similarly, I've seen motorcycles driving fast down bike lanes to get around car traffic.

It's a similar situation between the scooters and pedestrians on busy sidewalks.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#88

Post by komali2 »

samstave wrote: post #76
grandmczeb wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cyclists constantly break the law in literally every city I’ve ever seen cyclists in. As long as they’re being safe, I don’t really blame them either - very few cities are designed with cyclists in mind and the letter of the law is usually hugely inconvenient.

Seriously, I have been a cyclist for a decade. Saying things like "blowing through a stop sign" is stupid in the vast majority of cases, as stopping can actually be more unsafe. Also, its so freaking tiresome to assume that every single human being is a fucking moron. Cyclists have all their faculties, they can see, hear, move, discern. Thus, they are making a judgement to "blow through" a stop-sign in the same way a…

The issue with this is that, on my motorcycle, I nearly take out (especially on left turns) bicyclists blowing through reds that don't see me. I can't stop midturn without high risk of going down and taking out the cyclist (and pedestrians) with my sliding motorcycle, it's a risky situation all around.

The laws like "just stop at red" don't care about your perceptive ability, they care about everyone's perceptive ability. It takes a HUGE amount of swarm intelligence and error-correcting to make traffic work, single bad actors are auto-corrected for usually, but get two in one instance, or have a faulty error-corrector present (a tired driver, a bicyclist failing to see a motorcyclist in dark gear, etc) and there's your accident.

So while I understand the argument that you, or jaywalkers, make, I don't agree. Partly because of tragedy of the commons, but also because I simply don't trust the perceptivity of you + all other cyclists. It's too prone to error. Just go with the safe option.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#89

Post by dsfyu404ed »

karpodiem wrote: post #34
poulsbohemian wrote: post #3

Would be really nice to see F turn around: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/f?ltr=1

Detroiter here - I'm off of Adams Ave. downtown, next to Grand Circus Park/Comerica. Ford needs - 1) Better styling. I just bought a Grand Cherokee, and despite the 2020 Ford Explorer being RWD, I would never consider a Ford vehicle. Their exterior/interior styling is bland. 2) An off-road sub brand to compete against Jeep. The upcoming Bronco/baby Bronco/Ranger is a start, but Jeep is making a killing with the brand…

>Jeep is making a killing with the brand image despite 95% of people only taking their Wranglers over curbs in a mall parking lot

Jeep is making a killing because mom wants a convertible with a second row for little Jimmy and dad knows she'll spend a lot of time going sideways if she doesn't have AWD then they once they're on the lot they realize that it's grossly overpriced for what it is and not a very practical SUV. At that point any half-competent salesman can get them to sign a lease on a Compass or GC.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#90

Post by TulliusCicero »

andrewljohnson wrote: post #61

There I was, sitting at the busy intersection of Sacramento and Ashby in Berkeley, when I saw two boys that couldn't have been more than 8-10 years old fly by on Bird Scooters. And I thought to myself, some kid is going to die. And lots of people do die on these things: https://www.google.com/search?q=bird+scooters+deaths These scooter companies suck, I wish they'd all go away. If they weren't all going for hypergrow…

> And I thought to myself, some kid is going to die.

Traffic fatalities from cars are already one of the top causes of death for kids and young adults, but has that made us in the states invest more in other, safer forms of transportation? Lol, no.

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