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Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

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Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#81

Post by MIKarlsen »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #77
k__ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, how many people can you train to become programmers?

Most people, I'd imagine. Given enough time. But I don't know how many you could train within a cost-effective timeframe.

And learning the basics just doesn't seem to cut it anymore. It seems like most enterprise technology builds on older versions of older versions making it more complex. For instance, AI and ML seems like two subject areas that would be impossible for anyone to work professionally with, if they don't have years and years of experience with programming/math/statistics.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#82

Post by shagie »

The part that made me wonder about the millennials in their job search is:

> Butcher has a high-school diploma and a resume filled with low-wage jobs from Target and Walmart to a local grocery store. He’s being selective as he searches for new work because he doesn’t want to grind out unhappy hours for unsatisfying compensation.

I believe that having a job that you love is a luxury. It is something to look at once basic needs are met.

There are jobs out there, and even jobs that train entry level in a trade. No, it may not be the job you love... but as Stephen Stills said:

> If you're down and confused And you don't remember who you're talking to Concentration slip away Because your baby is so far away

> Well, there's a rose in a fisted glove And the eagle flies with the dove And if you can't be with the one you love, honey Love the one you're with ...

That doesn’t mean one should love that unsatisfying job, but recognize that not everyone will have that dream job.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#83

Post by forgottenpass »

mdo123 wrote: post #28
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #24

Anytime the issue of millenials and jobs comes up, I think you have to talk about what the structural differences in the economy and business world are now: "Thirty years ago, she says, you could walk into any hotel in America and everyone in the building, from the cleaners to the security guards to the bartenders, was a direct hire, each worker on the same pay scale and enjoying the same benefits as everyone else. T…

Ugh I hate Watery Margarita Inc!

They're as bad as Heady Pours LLC

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#84

Post by lordnacho »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #63

I'm a 29 year old male. I've been trying to get a new job since March, and I've been unemployed since August. I have an MEng in Electronic Systems Engineering, and over 3 years continuous relevant work experience. I have tried applying through Seek and TradeMe, and got no response. I tried writing custom cover letters and applying on company websites. I've rewritten my résumé several times based on contradictory advi…

What do you want to do as a job? What do the people who have this job have on their CVs? Have you found people on LinkedIn who hire for what you want to do?

Also recruiters are a dead end for everyone who isn't already a very close match for a job that's going. It's incredibly frustrating for everyone, but that's their incentive structure.

And what do you mean Apple II? Isn't that ancient?

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#85

Post by geezerjay »

ehrtt wrote: post #45
Alex63 wrote: post #20

Some interesting things in this article. Given what appear to be changing attitudes to men ("long America’s economically privileged gender"), is this situation really surprising? When one considers diversity and inclusion goals, hiring more men seems like a lower priority. I was also amused by the comment, “I’m very quick to get frustrated when people refuse to pay me what I’m worth.” This seems like a conversation I…

> You're worth what the market is willing to offer you, not what you think you are worth. This is an absurd statement, the market is not a god. It does not have a value system.

> This is an absurd statement, the market is not a god. It does not have a value system.

The word "market" is just a convenient tag to refer to a collection of individuals like you and me looking to buy/sell goods and/or services, and deciding what's best for them given the choices available, their priorities, and the information they have.

Thus, when anyone refers to what "the market is willing to offer", they are referring to what the individuals like you and me who are shopping for a good/service are actually willing to pay in exchange for it.

Are you willing to pay a philosophy major a 70k/year salary for him to research a topic? No? Neither is anyone else. Thus, in short, the market for philosophy research is not willing to pay for that.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#86

Post by hindsightbias »

specialp wrote: post #41

"So for now, the Pittsburgh native and father to young children is living with his mother" In the past that wasn't so much of an option. You had to survive. I grew up with parents working jobs like the one he eschewed. They wouldn't dare try to live with my comparatively much more wealthy grandma. So now living with your parents into your 30s is like taking basic income. This is all fine if someone is truly doing thi…

And your parents get to raise your kids. And probably pay for their care and schooling.

I can grok 'lazy' or non-participation, but adding kids to the mix?

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#87

Post by ams6110 »

specialp wrote: post #41

"So for now, the Pittsburgh native and father to young children is living with his mother" In the past that wasn't so much of an option. You had to survive. I grew up with parents working jobs like the one he eschewed. They wouldn't dare try to live with my comparatively much more wealthy grandma. So now living with your parents into your 30s is like taking basic income. This is all fine if someone is truly doing thi…

Don't know why you're downvoted. It's very easy for a person to rationalize sitting at home by telling himself he is holding out for a job that will "pay what I'm worth" but not doing anything concrete to make that happen.

When I was in my late teens/20s I never thought moving back home was an acceptable option. Working at McDonalds or delivering pizza and living with roomates felt more honorable than moving back in with my parents.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#88

Post by k__ »

MIKarlsen wrote: post #54
k__ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, how many people can you train to become programmers?

Are you asking if it would be feasible for companies to take in well-educated people, and teaching them the programming/dev-craft? I don't know. But right now, companies are trying to solve the problem in other ways, which is ultimately not addressing their core need. I just feel like some sort of educational system (bootcamp'ish) would be able to make a good business case for most companies.

I'm asking how much of the population can learn to program.

I once read that you need an IQ above 100 to learn it and be effective with it, I just don't remember how much above 100 it was. 110 or 115 or something...

On the other hand, programming gets easier by the day.

I know a few people in marketing who build impressive stuff just with GUI based programming tools.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#89

Post by uep »

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #24

Anytime the issue of millenials and jobs comes up, I think you have to talk about what the structural differences in the economy and business world are now: "Thirty years ago, she says, you could walk into any hotel in America and everyone in the building, from the cleaners to the security guards to the bartenders, was a direct hire, each worker on the same pay scale and enjoying the same benefits as everyone else. T…

Doesn't this mean that middle-men are just being inserted who are absorbing some of the productivity (earnings) of the worker?

It seems like this would only make economic sense if the end company isn't using them on a regular basis, so overall efficiency goes up by multiplexing an employee out to multiple companies as needed. It seems implied by "Rent-A-Guard", but I'm musing out-loud. I haven't had a chance to read your article yet.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#90

Post by geezerjay »

divs1210 wrote: post #64
ehrtt wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're worth what the market is willing to offer you, not what you think you are worth. This is an absurd statement, the market is not a god. It does not have a value system.

In a capitalistic society, The Market = God. Ever heard people claiming that The Market will fix things? Where have I heard that before?

> In a capitalistic society, The Market = God.

Enough with the puerile poetry. In a capitalist society, the market is people like you and me who like to decide for themselves what's in their own best interests.

The market fixes problems because people likeyou and me always find a balance between what they supply and demand, and what trade-offs they are willing to accept. There is no magic or witchcraft.

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