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At least it wasn't Oracle

chrisshort.net

81–90 of 146 posts

Re: At least it wasn't Oracle

#81
post #65

I used to work for Jet.com, which was acquired by Walmart, and I stayed there for about two years after the acquisition. It was an OK place to work, and they gave Jet some level of autonomy, but I left when I read that Walmart wants to start "integrating" their stuff ours, which in my case was a lot of Java crap that was clearly at least 10 years old. I doubt that my experience is atypical with this. Big companies li…

Interestingly, I had a unique view on the other side of this. I worked at Walmart Labs at the time of the acquisition as well- remotely, from Jersey City. Long story short, upper management had changed, they were no longer supporting remote, at least not for management level, and I saw the writing on the wall that my future wasn't looking great- I fought against their massive tightly coupled Pangaea system (that Java code, shockingly was only a few years old, nowhere close to ten) and lost that battle, I was remote, my saving grace that I was working on grocery which was absolutely taking off at the time.

Anyway, I happen to go to a brewery and meet one of your product guys- he had a Jet shirt on, and I just went over and said hello. We got along great, famously actually, and after a few beers I said "hey you know, this remote thing... its not looking like a long term thing... you guys seem pretty interesting..." and we set up an informal meet and greet. I get along with everyone, and had a trip out HQ the next week. I poked around about Jet, and mentioned hey you know I live about ten minutes from their office, and yeah- all the talk was about how quickly they could get off their stack and onto Pangaea. I just fought that, and gone through the painful task of moving some stuff to their stack, and another 2 years of dealing with migrations and not focusing on customers just seemed terrible. I ended up leaving.

But yeah WMT in general is all about the "one right way" to do things. Which is great if its the right way, but I often used to say that there were a few bad teams that were just absolute anchors around the entire firm. I understand you don't want 10 teams building the same thing, but a little healthy competition is ok to me...

Re: At least it wasn't Oracle

#82
post #63

That's the opposite of what I thought when Oracle bought Sun. Q: What do you get when you cross IBM and Apple? A: IBM On the bright side, now RedHat employees can flash their new IBM business cards at International Brotherhood of Magicians shows in Las Vegas to get in for free, thanks to the terms of a trademark infringement lawsuit settlement from decades ago.

Didn’t Apple and IBM work on an OS boondoggle back in the Windows 95 time period?

Yeah, the Apple Network Server running AIX with some Apple-specific customization. Interesting idea that didn't work out.

Re: At least it wasn't Oracle

#83

IBM aquisition is not bad in my point of view, it is big corporation which guarantees stability to the employees.

Judging by your bad English, specifically the lack of articles, I'm going to guess you're Indian and that perhaps you've benefitted from an IBM acquisition.

keep it professional please.

Re: At least it wasn't Oracle

#84

Not sure why Chris felt so much anxiety about the acquisition. Red Hat was already a huge company and things change. After all, it is just a corporate job and he can find another one, especially in this climate. I can only understand his anxiety if he is an exec high up the chain and likely will be trimmed and his multi-million dollar salary is affected, and he has a huge mortgage, and lots of bills to pay and so on.…

Hi, Red Hatter here. Red Hat is not just a corporate job for many/most of us. I'm here because the culture is fantastic and the deep understanding of remote working is vital to me.

Re: At least it wasn't Oracle

#85

Having been in Chris' shoes (being acquired by IBM) I found the reactions of different people in the company most interesting. Several people had the same sort of "Everything is different now that IBM owns us." reaction, but if you unpack that, the reality is a bit different. For a company like Redhat I can't imagine it will be largely changed in the first couple of years at least, so for that period of time you will…

"What will be different will be access to a company that has been running for over 100 years and evolved over that time, at all levels. Facilities all around the world. Access to some of the scientists that you may have only read their papers but now can chat with via slack."

I have never seen this materialize in any big company. Different departments may as well be different companies. They never talk to each other.

Re: At least it wasn't Oracle

#86

Having been in Chris' shoes (being acquired by IBM) I found the reactions of different people in the company most interesting. Several people had the same sort of "Everything is different now that IBM owns us." reaction, but if you unpack that, the reality is a bit different. For a company like Redhat I can't imagine it will be largely changed in the first couple of years at least, so for that period of time you will…

> IBM is just another company trying to do things to make the world a better place

Yeah. That’s why they helped the Nazis and invented ILMT.

Re: At least it wasn't Oracle

#87
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn’t Apple and IBM work on an OS boondoggle back in the Windows 95 time period?

IBM and Motorola worked with Apple to make the PowerPC chips Apple used in their (i|Power)(Mac|Book) ranges for years. They called it the AIM Alliance.

Then there were Apple and IBM's two joint ventures: Taligent and Kaleida (where I worked on ScriptX until it shut down).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taligent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaleida_Labs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ScriptX

Working at Kaleida was like having parents who couldn't get along and argued all the time, so no hard decisions ever actually got made.

ScriptX supported QuickTime on MacOS, Windows and OS/2, but Apple was shy about IBM and other companies having access to the source code.

IBM desperately wanted everyone to use and love OS/2 (so they renamed it Warp so the cool kids would dig it), while Taligent was tasked at solving the problem of Apple's shitty operating system. Taligent also had their own weird incompatible object model, as well as CommonPoint's "people, places and things" metaphor, which they shamelessly ripped off from Schoolhouse Rock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk4N5kkifGQ

CHRP was the Common Hardware Reference Platform for the PowerPC, which IBM and Apple collaborated on. IBM made a CHRP PowerPC Thinkpad that ran OS/2, but out of pride refused to sell one that ran MacOS, which kind of missed the whole point of CHRP. IBM just couldn't imagine why anyone would want to run anything but OS/2 on them.

I would have loved to have a MacOS powerbook running on wonderful Thinkpad hardware, because Apple's laptop hardware was pretty crappy at the time. It would have been the best of both worlds, but it was never to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC

And then there was OpenDoc. There were actually two different incompatible implementations of OpenDoc, one from Apple on MacOS and one from IBM on OS/2, and they didn't talk to each other (which kind of missed the entire point).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDoc

IBM was shipping a bunch of OpenDoc stuff on OS/2 (Eric The Half-an-OS), and used it themselves, but nobody else wanted to use OpenDoc or even OS/2, despite their extensive advertising campaign and Warp re-branding attempt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlrsqGal64w

IBM's implementation of SOM (System Object Model), which their implementation of OpenDoc was built on top of, required that you use IBM's C++ compiler to get special optimizations, otherwise every message send was quite expensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System_Object_Model

Apple had their own implementation of OpenDoc that used their own compiler, and wasn't compatible with IBM's.

Apple used their version of OpenDoc to create CyberDoc, a component oriented web browser, which was extremely cool and flexible, but didn't go anywhere unfortunately, even though it was a brilliant approach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberdog

At the time, CHRP and Open Doc were supposed to be "the future", but in reality, neither Apple nor IBM really had their shit together nor were serious about swallowing their pride and getting along well enough to develop products that actually shared the same technology and plugged together and synergized as well as they promised.

It would have been wonderful if both Apple and IBM followed through with their plans to their full potential: A CHRP PowerPC ThinkPad laptop running MacOS, OpenDoc and CyberDog!

Kaleida missed the boat on CyberDog, but was around OpenDoc early enough to go through the motions of adopting its Bento file format (FWTW), but never did anything with OpenDoc itself (neither Apple's or IBM's).

The fact that there were two incompatible versions of OpenDoc on different operating systems, and ScriptX was meant to run on both, made that kind of difficult to impossible.

OpenDoc required huge amounts of memory, and so did ScriptX, which had its own totally different object model (like Dylan + CLOS), so it just wouldn't have been practical at the time.

As sad as it was, Steve Jobs was right to "put a bullet in OpenDoc's head".

Jobs explained (and performed) his side of the story in this fascinating and classic WWDC'97 video: "Focusing is about saying no."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8eP99neOVs

Q: What about OpenDoc?

Jobs: What about OpenDoc??! (nods)

Q: Yeah.

Jobs: Yeah. (sips) (smirks) (leans) What about it?

Q: (laughs) Ooooh nooo!!!

Jobs: It's dead, right?

Q: Huh??!

Jobs: It's dead, right? (nods)

Q: Oh, I don't know, I spent a lot of time working on it. And it kind of makes me sad.

Jobs: (shakes) Yeah? (stands) Well, let me say something that's sort of generic. (paces and gestures) I know a lot of you spent a lot of time working on stuff that we put a bullet in the head of. I apologize. (opens hands) I feel your pain. (genuflects)

(prays) But Apple suffered for several years from no, from lousy engineering management, I have to say it. (applause)

There were people who were going off in eighteen different directions, doing arguable interesting things in each one of them. Good engineers. Lousy management. (slouches)

And what happened is you look at the farm that has been created with all these different animals going in different directions (crucifies arms), and it doesn't add up (bends over). The total is less than the sum of the parts.

(prays) So we had to decide what are the fundamental directions we're going in, and what makes sense, and what doesn't. And there were a bunch of things that didn't. And microcosmically they might have made sense, macrocosmically they made no sense. (waves arms)

(prays) And you know the hardest thing is, when you think about focusing (fists), right, focusing is saying yes! No. (palms out) Focusing is about saying no. (palms down) Focusing is about saying no. (emphasizes)

And you've got to say no, no, no. (chops) And when you say no, you piss off people. (points finger) And they go talk to the San Jose Mercury, and they write a shitty article about you, you know? (spreads hands) And it's really a pisser.

Because you want to be nice, you don't want to tell the San Jose Mercury the person who's telling you this (holds out hand), you know, just was asked to leave, or this or that, it was that, so you take the lumps.

And Apple's been taking their lumps for the last six months (chops), in a very unfair way (spreads hands). And it's been taking them, you know (fists), like an adult. And I'm proud of that (pulls up sleeves). And there's more to come (spreads arms), I'm sure. There's more to come.

Some of these -- I read these articles about some of these people who have left. I know some of these people. They haven't done anything in seven years. And you know, they leave (waves hand), and it's like the company's going to fall apart the next day (shrugs).

And so I think (hands on hips) there'll be stories like that that come and go (pulls up pants), but focus is about saying no (Clinton thumb).

And the result of that focus is going to be some really great products, where the total is much greater than the sum of the parts (chops).

And OpenDoc... I was for putting a bullet in the head of OpenDoc. A: I didn't think it was great technology. But B: it didn't fit (shrugs). The rest of the world wasn't going to use OpenDoc.

And I think as a container strategy (hand on chin), there's some stuff in the Java space that's much better. And even the OpenDoc guys were trying to were trying to basically rewrite the whole thing in Java anyway (waves hands), which was a restart (shrugs). So it didn't make sense (hands on hips).

Re: At least it wasn't Oracle

#88
post #4

Red hat always seemed like a fun company to work for to me. I'm not sure how my opinion of that will change now IBM is holding the ropes.

Red Hat was probably my top company that I ever wanted to work in, but this time around couldn't find good open positions so joined another company (only a few months ago). I feel blessed because I'd probably feel really bad if I joined RedHat and then it suddenly became IBM. Now, next time around (in a few years) I'll know more about this whole IBM acquisition deal, and if RedHat is still a good company to work in,…

Can I ask why? I'm genuinely curious. My understanding is their core business is selling Enterprise support for linux, which, no offense to them, doesn't strike me as particularly interesting. I know they also contribute a lot of open source stuff back, but in terms of working in open source Linux a company like Canonical seems more appealing from my limited knowledge, just because their main product is distributed under a free license unlike RHEL. In terms of working on interesting new software/infrastructure platforms, working somewhere like Hashicorp, or even working at Google Cloud or AWS also seem more appealing.

Not trying hate on Redhat, I just never got the impression of them being particularly innovative. A lot of the most interesting stuff I have heard of from them seems to have come from acquisitions, like CoreOS or Ansible. In which case, I don't see why these acquisitions now living under the IBM umbrella is necessarily that much worse than being under Redhat.

Re: At least it wasn't Oracle

#89

IBM aquisition is not bad in my point of view, it is big corporation which guarantees stability to the employees.

it is big corporation which guarantees stability to the employees.

IBM lays off employees by the thousands every year, paying only statutory minimum severance packages. This has been extensively covered by the trade press, e.g. El Reg. It is anything but a guarantee of stability, infact it is the opposite!

Re: At least it wasn't Oracle

#90
post #81
post #65

I used to work for Jet.com, which was acquired by Walmart, and I stayed there for about two years after the acquisition. It was an OK place to work, and they gave Jet some level of autonomy, but I left when I read that Walmart wants to start "integrating" their stuff ours, which in my case was a lot of Java crap that was clearly at least 10 years old. I doubt that my experience is atypical with this. Big companies li…

Interestingly, I had a unique view on the other side of this. I worked at Walmart Labs at the time of the acquisition as well- remotely, from Jersey City. Long story short, upper management had changed, they were no longer supporting remote, at least not for management level, and I saw the writing on the wall that my future wasn't looking great- I fought against their massive tightly coupled Pangaea system (that Java…

With the recent walmat redesign and the constant new website features, I was under the impression that Jet had totally taken over the website(walmart.com). It's interesting to see that the opposite was the case.
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