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LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

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Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#81

Post by tdb7893 »

Claudus wrote: post #68
coldtea wrote: post #61

First, they should ask: Is there a prostitution problem? And what is the prostitution problem? Is it the problem that prostitution is sinful? Then they could perhaps finally come to the 21st century, and the problem is solved by itself. Is the problem that prostitution is illegal? That's a self imposed problem, they can just change the law (like other countries and some states/counties have). Is the problem that soci…

It seems to me, that legalizing prostitution would be at the top of the issues list for feminism. Most of the arguments made in support of legal abortion could also be made for legal prostitution. Furthermore, there is a fair amount of research indicating that legal prostitution reduces occurances of rape. Although I suppose it would increase “liquidity” in the market, and reduce the value of sex to a certain degree.

Prostitution is a harder issue because the worry is that by its nature it will still be exploitative and harmful even if it's legal. If prostitution would be safe and healthy for the women most feminists I know would be for it, the worry is that if you legalize it in the US legalizing it will sort of industrialized the harm that's currently endemic to the system. Feminists ultimately want what's best for the women and in this situation I think that would be legalizing it but it's not completely clear (also many feminists I've met are for legalizing it but are just less sure than on more obvious issues like abortion).

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#82

Post by mannykannot »

code_duck wrote: post #78
closeparen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government is required to respect privacy, not to be stupid. An area's status as a crime hotspot can reasonably cast suspicion on those visiting it late at night.

They can suspect all they want, but stopping an questioning someone simply due to their presence on a public street, in the absence of an exceptional situation or investigation, is not acceptable.

Indeed, though note that in many places (notably New York City), people can be stopped on the street with even less of a pretense of probable cause.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_Cit...

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#83

Post by DoreenMichele »

chongli wrote: post #80
DoreenMichele wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have six years of college, including a Certificate in GIS. I worked at a Fortune 500 company for over 5 years. The only person at the company who knew what GIS was without me having to explain it was a senior programmer who asked me for a date, thereby making it vastly less likely that I could ever successfully get a job in his department. I've been a member of HN for over 9 years. I spent nearly 6 of it homeless.…

.

Overlooking the horrendous message that no one should have any sympathy for a (formerly) homeless American because there are people who have it worse, are you telling me you see zero connection between my difficulties and these women who are treated worse? Are you saying we shouldn't work on removing barriers to advancement for women as part of the solution to this problem?

I mean, other than just taking some kind of shot at me like I'm just a whiner who doesn't appreciate how good I have it, what exactly is the point you are trying to make?

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#84

Post by krishicks »

sathackr wrote: post #7

So the signs are there so that the police have probable cause to stop someone that they otherwise wouldn't have probable cause to stop. Does anyone else see a problem with making otherwise perfectly legal and safe behavior(turning on to a side street) illegal just to legalize an otherwise unconstitutional traffic stop? Seems like another slippery slope we ought not to be sliding down.

Think of it another way: the locals overwhelmingly agreed to change the rules because they probably understood that while they could adapt to the rule, outsiders probably would not be as well-informed.

Someone making a right turn after hours paints themselves as a potential outsider who doesn’t know the rules and, given the location’s history, is probably there to solicit sex.

I like that the community was empowered to make this change.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#86

Post by mattmanser »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #74
mattmanser wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's far more complicated than that, there's a big division in feminists over whether women should have the choice, or whether it's inherently exploitative by men.

This presumes that only women can be prostitutes and only men can be clients, among other things.

I wasn't even taking a side, merely explaining to the parent that there's two sides among feminists.

Please don't put words in my mouth, I was presuming nothing.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#87

Post by woodpanel »

coldtea wrote: post #61

First, they should ask: Is there a prostitution problem? And what is the prostitution problem? Is it the problem that prostitution is sinful? Then they could perhaps finally come to the 21st century, and the problem is solved by itself. Is the problem that prostitution is illegal? That's a self imposed problem, they can just change the law (like other countries and some states/counties have). Is the problem that soci…

I think the problem is manyfold.

While prostitution shouldn't be a crime in the first place IMHO, having illegal street prostitution at the front of your door is something you definitely don't want and is worth fighting against. The same would go for drugs or even stolen bread if there was a black market for it.

It has less to do with the morality of it being legal/illegal and more with the people gathering in front of your door that don't seem to care for the official morality. They are not hippies, they are tourists taking a vacation from morality and treating your area accordingly. I.e. like a dump.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#88

Post by benchaney »

krishicks wrote: post #84
sathackr wrote: post #7

So the signs are there so that the police have probable cause to stop someone that they otherwise wouldn't have probable cause to stop. Does anyone else see a problem with making otherwise perfectly legal and safe behavior(turning on to a side street) illegal just to legalize an otherwise unconstitutional traffic stop? Seems like another slippery slope we ought not to be sliding down.

Think of it another way: the locals overwhelmingly agreed to change the rules because they probably understood that while they could adapt to the rule, outsiders probably would not be as well-informed. Someone making a right turn after hours paints themselves as a potential outsider who doesn’t know the rules and, given the location’s history, is probably there to solicit sex. I like that the community was empowered…

Mistreating outsiders because they are outsiders isn't justifiable just because it is popular. The idea that they are "probably there to solicit sex" is not relevant (nor is it defensible based on available evidence).

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#89

Post by DoreenMichele »

mattmanser wrote: post #86
DoreenMichele wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This presumes that only women can be prostitutes and only men can be clients, among other things.

I wasn't even taking a side, merely explaining to the parent that there's two sides among feminists. Please don't put words in my mouth, I was presuming nothing.

There was no intent to put words in your mouth and I wasn't suggesting the presumption originates with you.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#90

Post by bad_user »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #37
googlryas wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what rate do you think women are driven into prostitution because they hit a glass ceiling in their previous line of work? Versus, you know, never getting off the ground floor?

I have six years of college, including a Certificate in GIS. I worked at a Fortune 500 company for over 5 years. The only person at the company who knew what GIS was without me having to explain it was a senior programmer who asked me for a date, thereby making it vastly less likely that I could ever successfully get a job in his department. I've been a member of HN for over 9 years. I spent nearly 6 of it homeless.…

Having visited the Bay Area, I found it a ruthless place to live in.

That’s why I never left Romania. The cost of life here is manageable enough that the possibility of me becoming homeless is practically zero. And it’s not SF, but we do have some startups and software companies here and I can work remotely too.

Given the trouble you’re facing, as an unsolicited advice, wouldn’t it be better for you if you moved someplace where the cost of life is lower?

Personally I find it incredible how highly skilled people in the US, especially in California, can become homeless.

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