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Sales mistakes that software engineers make

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Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#81

Post by chasd00 »

bsvalley wrote: post #54

Great pieces of advice but it’s like asking a sales person to learn how to code. My best advice and where I believe engineers should spend 100% of there energy up front, is to go out there and find a cofounder who’s primary skill is to sell stuff. Product or marketing folks. Both strategies (yours and mine) are very tough and time consuming, so I’d definitely pick mine. Why? Because it would be so much more optimized…

Yes! Find a salesperson for the reasons above. I'll add this, in all startups I've been in the actual code or engineering made up 20% of the company at most. Sales, marketing, operations, finance, you better be just as good in those areas as you are in your favorite pet language.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#82

Post by jasonkester »

irrational wrote: post #60
fuball63 wrote: post #56

I fall into the "Build before talking to customers" trap constantly. Even though I know it's "wrong", it is hard to escape it because of the simple problem of not knowing who to talk to. The article suggests doing a search for potential companies, finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails. But what about experimental technologies or developer tools? I wouldn't expect a lot of success with a slow movin…

>finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails Has that ever worked? I'm not on LinkedIn, yet somehow companies still find my work email and I'm always getting emails from people about how there product is the best thing ever and can we set up a call, or there is a webinar, or can they come by. Oh, and did I not see their previous attempts to reach me? Yes, I saw them, but I've never responded to any of t…

This is the reason that us developers keep falling into the same "build first" trap.

Because we're wired the way you describe, unable to even imagine a world where one of those emails would ever get responded to, we miss the sorta obvious fact that, yes, they do work quite nicely.

People wired like normal don't have the same dread of unsolicited contact that we do. And those are the same people who end up as managers, bosses, business owners, etc. People who do the actual software purchasing in the world.

So yes, as impossible as it seems, those mails do work. And we need to send them.

I still find it hard to do. And I'm never anything but amazed when it works.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#83

Post by phkahler »

fuball63 wrote: post #56

I fall into the "Build before talking to customers" trap constantly. Even though I know it's "wrong", it is hard to escape it because of the simple problem of not knowing who to talk to. The article suggests doing a search for potential companies, finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails. But what about experimental technologies or developer tools? I wouldn't expect a lot of success with a slow movin…

>> I have found a little success going to meetups and talking in person to other developers and entrepreneurs...

Perhaps you need to go to meetups with potential customers instead of other developers.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#84

Post by djrogers »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #35

The first point is often totally wrong. I worked in a place where the sales team sold the product hard before much of it was built and before it was reliable. It turned out to be way harder to build what customers actually wanted than anyone knew ahead of time. Nobody could foresee it. The only way we could have known we were egregiously over-promising in the sales pitches was to just actually start building it first…

I think you might be taking the term ‘selling’ too literally - it’s pitching an idea and soliciting feedback. If you’re taking orders for something that doesn’t exist yet, you’ve done it wrong. OTOH, if use the 3/12/24 months it takes to build the product to listen to future customers, you can ship something of value as soon as its ready.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#85

Post by fyfy18 »

ptero wrote: post #63

This is a very good post. I am in special agreement with #2 (on listening). However, #1 for me is not quite right. Selling before building anything may backfire as your prospects could see you as an airhead selling vaporware. "OK, this tech looks useful, but so is anti-gravity. Show me that it is buildable and that your team can build it quickly." One way to allay such concerns is to have a quick prototype that (on a…

> One way to allay such concerns is to have a quick prototype

Once you've discovered a need for a potential product, this is the most important bit. You should spend as little time as possible trying to build the MVP.

It's really important to stick to the 'minimum' and not over-engineer it. That means if you have the choice of using ML that will take 6 months to build, or you can build it in a month and then spend 12 hours a day juggling spreadsheets, you should do the later.

Once you get to market, and (hopefully) have real customers paying you, you'll discover much more valuable insights than you ever could just by talking to prospects up front.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#86

Post by djrogers »

rawoke083600 wrote: post #65

I guess its obvious now but when I demo'ed/try-to-sale my software projects I would spend 15 min showing "the guy" all the features.. INSTEAD of listing and teasing-out the ONE requirement/problem the guy had and THEN spending 15 min showing him how the software will fix he's one big problem.

I’m in sales, and sometimes I get so excited about a particular technology that I forget this rule too. Can’t imagine how hard it would be for someone who actually built the dang thing!

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#87

Post by samsolomon »

irrational wrote: post #60
fuball63 wrote: post #56

I fall into the "Build before talking to customers" trap constantly. Even though I know it's "wrong", it is hard to escape it because of the simple problem of not knowing who to talk to. The article suggests doing a search for potential companies, finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails. But what about experimental technologies or developer tools? I wouldn't expect a lot of success with a slow movin…

>finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails Has that ever worked? I'm not on LinkedIn, yet somehow companies still find my work email and I'm always getting emails from people about how there product is the best thing ever and can we set up a call, or there is a webinar, or can they come by. Oh, and did I not see their previous attempts to reach me? Yes, I saw them, but I've never responded to any of t…

> I just can't imagine cold-calling/emailing people actually works.

For what it's worth cold calling is a bit different than it used to be—at least in software sales. Today many companies take an account-based approach. This means that there is a good amount of qualification happening before the cold call. Does the account use Salesforce, Gmail, other key integrations? How much ARR are they doing?

If the account is a good match, then the reps will go through the organization on LinkedIn and try and find 3-5 key stakeholders. Who knows about the problems this software solves? Who can be an influencer? A decision maker? Those people are put on a cadence that involves several touch points—emails, calls, social mentions. Stuff like that.

By the time the first cold call is made there is a fair chance that the person on the other end is interested in the solution—or at least in hearing a potential one. Because the research has been done upfront and leads that don't match have been disqualified, this is much more effective than the power dialing.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#88

Post by maxsilver »

irrational wrote: post #60
fuball63 wrote: post #56

I fall into the "Build before talking to customers" trap constantly. Even though I know it's "wrong", it is hard to escape it because of the simple problem of not knowing who to talk to. The article suggests doing a search for potential companies, finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails. But what about experimental technologies or developer tools? I wouldn't expect a lot of success with a slow movin…

>finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails Has that ever worked? I'm not on LinkedIn, yet somehow companies still find my work email and I'm always getting emails from people about how there product is the best thing ever and can we set up a call, or there is a webinar, or can they come by. Oh, and did I not see their previous attempts to reach me? Yes, I saw them, but I've never responded to any of t…

> I just can't imagine cold-calling/emailing people actually works.

I felt this way for the longest time. I hate cold calls. I hate making them, I hate recieving them. Everyone I've ever talked to claims to hate cold calls. Why do people still do this. Who the hell is buying from cold calls?

So I sat down with a couple of people from a sales team, and just asked them what they did. And apparently, a good chunk of their day is legitimately just cold-calls. (Literally through the phone book, or through LinkedIn, or tradeshow cold-stops, etc). While a cold call almost never translate into an instant sale, we can trace most sales back to a start from a cold call.

They don't sell pecan pies or double glazing either. Enterprise software at price tags over $100k/each, or custom development engagements at $100-300k. And it usually starts with a cold call.

So while it still sounds absolutely insane to me, multiple sales people have told me that cold calls work. And these folks regularly win deals and earn good commissions, so I tend to believe them.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#89

Post by mpweiher »

bambax wrote: post #24

> Sales Mistake #1 - Building Before you Start Selling (...) If you’re wrong, you’ll save time and money by not building something people don’t want. I fell into this trap often, so I know it well. The reason why we don't ask first is, we want to build something . Anything. If we're "wrong", we won't "save" time and money, we will delay the moment we start making, maybe indefinitely. What if we never find something p…

And of course there is the old: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." (and there is apparently no evidence that Henry Ford actually uttered those words)

While talking to, and most of all listening to customers is important, it too easily leads to building things that people know they want/need. Something truly "revolutionary" is unlikely with that method. Of course, something truly revolutionary is highly unlikely, period. So if your primary motivation is business success, you probably want to stay away from going for "revolutionary". On the other hand, it's not a given that business success has to be motivator or primary goal.

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