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The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

bbc.com

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Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#81

Post by enriquto »

maxxxxx wrote: post #2

Singapore is an interesting case study how a well-run government that restricts a lot of freedoms can work remarkably well. I wonder if this model is sustainable long term.

> Singapore is an interesting case study how a well-run government that restricts a lot of freedoms can work remarkably well. I wonder if this model is sustainable long term.

To me it sounds like the worst kind of dystopia possible. The wrong mix of medieval and futuristic: you get flogged or killed for silly things, the economy is effectively feudal, and if you are ever somewhat happy about something (wow! no mosquitos!), this does not last long when you realize the sad truth (they have poisoned all their freshwater to kill all mosquitos and fish and frogs). Honestly, I would prefer to live anywhere else on earth before scary, inhuman Singapore.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#82

Post by sho »

jpatokal wrote: post #64
philliphaydon wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many maids are also kept in modern-day slavery, working 365/24/7 In order to get a maid in Singapore you have to pass a test. They are also paid ~500-700/m which is a lot more than they earn in their own countries. For example the minimum monthly income in Cambodia is roughly ~120$. So they earn a lot more in Singapore. Also maids must be given 1 day off per week. Now every single person I know who has a maid treat…

You're confusing what ought to be with what is . Yes, maids are supposed to be given one day off a week on paper, but who enforces that? Maids and other foreign workers are also not supposed to pay huge sums to agents to score jobs in Singapore, but they do, often ending up in debt, with loan sharks threatening their families if they don't complete their terms. It's not a question of "bad apples", but the system bein…

I have my own issues with Singapore but the picture you're painting is ludicrously off-base. $100 a month? No-one, literally no-one, is paid that.

There's no such thing as a society without any injustice but in my experience the vast majority of maids are pretty happy with their lot and many spend decades in the service of one family. Indeed, I have often thought the maids in Singapore are happier than their bosses. Certain people will have issues, probably unsolvable, of any economic structure which allows anyone to have a maid but it's far better than what the alternative is.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#83

Post by tallanvor »

Reason077 wrote: post #80

In London, the “war on litter bins” (removal of litter bins from train stations and central areas, supposedly to prevent them being misused by terrorists) has created a culture of simply leaving litter on the floor or in the street because there are no bins to put it in. Perhaps that’s ok in busy central locations where a street cleaner will be along shortly to pick it up, but the problem is that people are now accus…

The people who litter are the same ones who littered before the trash cans were removed. The only difference is that some of them were willing to walk a couple of steps to throw things away.

We need to teach common decency, adults need to set better examples, and the cops walking the street need to start ticketing people for littering - whether it's a fast food bag or a cigarette butt.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#84

Post by coldtea »

Reason077 wrote: post #80

In London, the “war on litter bins” (removal of litter bins from train stations and central areas, supposedly to prevent them being misused by terrorists) has created a culture of simply leaving litter on the floor or in the street because there are no bins to put it in. Perhaps that’s ok in busy central locations where a street cleaner will be along shortly to pick it up, but the problem is that people are now accus…

>In London, the “war on litter bins” (removal of litter bins from train stations and central areas, supposedly to prevent them being misused by terrorists)

That is not the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. But it's close.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#85

Post by coldtea »

tallanvor wrote: post #83
Reason077 wrote: post #80

In London, the “war on litter bins” (removal of litter bins from train stations and central areas, supposedly to prevent them being misused by terrorists) has created a culture of simply leaving litter on the floor or in the street because there are no bins to put it in. Perhaps that’s ok in busy central locations where a street cleaner will be along shortly to pick it up, but the problem is that people are now accus…

The people who litter are the same ones who littered before the trash cans were removed. The only difference is that some of them were willing to walk a couple of steps to throw things away. We need to teach common decency, adults need to set better examples, and the cops walking the street need to start ticketing people for littering - whether it's a fast food bag or a cigarette butt.

>The people who litter are the same ones who littered before the trash cans were removed. The only difference is that some of them were willing to walk a couple of steps to throw things away.

So, they're not the same, then? Those willing to walk a couple of steps to throw things away weren't littering before.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#86

Post by coldtea »

jernfrost wrote: post #75

Is not Japan similarly clean and they do it without lots of fines and cheap Labour. They do it through the upbringing and linking cleanliness to morality. I have not been either place but maybe somebody who have can compare to cleanliness of both places?

Yeah. If anything, Japan is even cleaner.

Singapore is very clean in major areas (downtown, main streets, neighborhoods, etc) but not different than e.g. London in poorer ones.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#87

Post by coldtea »

Paraesthetic wrote: post #34

One thing that always impressed me about Singapore was that they incinerated all their garbage, then they collected the emissions from that furnace to power the city, and used the by products again. Brilliant

Well, they drink their own piss too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEWater

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#88

Post by coldtea »

raincom wrote: post #4

The area of Singapore is 278 sq miles, approximately the size of 17 miles square. Whatever policies that work in such small high density places won't work in larger countries. However, one can try to decentralize as much as possible; such decentralization may not work in large countries either.

Well, Japan is clean too (or even cleaner), and is much larger. Switzerland and nordic countries are quite clean too -- while much bigger.

And there are places comparable in size to Singapore that are garbage-lands.

It's not like size is the key differentiator.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#89

Post by coldtea »

User23 wrote: post #47
raincom wrote: post #4

The area of Singapore is 278 sq miles, approximately the size of 17 miles square. Whatever policies that work in such small high density places won't work in larger countries. However, one can try to decentralize as much as possible; such decentralization may not work in large countries either.

Scale is a huge issue in politics. The right kind of government for a city isn't the right kind of government for a continent spanning federation.

Well, that's why "continent spanning federations" have local state governments and municipalities to take care of the garbage.

Plus, are states much smaller than Japan as clean as it is?

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#90

Post by coldtea »

philliphaydon wrote: post #58
latch wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan and South Korea tap water is safe...and I think it's commonly consumed in Japan. Koreans approach it like Singaporeans..some do, some boil.

I just googled and see Japan tape water is safe to drink. I've been by hotels in Tokyo, Kyoto, and Mt Fuji all told me not to drink the tap water. Hence I thought it wasn't drinkable. Good to know it is! I've never been to South Korea, yet.

>I've been by hotels in Tokyo, Kyoto, and Mt Fuji all told me not to drink the tap water.

And perhaps suggested you buy some bottled instead?

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