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A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

nytimes.com

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Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#81
post #27

The organization I work for, Common Sense Media, has done a good bit of research on screen time, addiction, and it's effect on families. Here is the report on Technology Addiction: https://www.commonsensemedia.org/research/technology-addicti... Here is our other research reports covering a wide range of media/technology topics effecting children, families and teachers: https://www.commonsensemedia.org/research?page=1

Just want to say how fantastic Common Sense Media is, and what a great resource it provides for parents trying to be intentional about all of this. Thank you for what you and your team do!

(And, to parents here who aren't familiar with their movie reviews and other resources, check them out: https://www.commonsensemedia.org/ )

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#82

>Technologists building these products and writers observing the tech revolution were naïve, he said. >"We thought we could control it,” Mr. Anderson said. “And this is beyond our power to control. This is going straight to the pleasure centers of the developing brain. This is beyond our capacity as regular parents to understand." A 6 year old's brain has no chance against a team of trained data scientists. We all kn…

"A 6 year old's brain has no chance against a team of trained data scientists. We all know this." Hell, I'd argue that many 40-50 year old brains clearly don't stand a chance against a trained data scientist.

That's correct -- it's adults too. And the odds are against the average person. But I must point out it's not just data scientists we are up against -- it's psychologists, psychiatrists and medical doctors, addiction experts, experts in gaming theory, etc. All are employed in order to help make software and devices more "compelling". Remember when they used to ask how "sticky" is the app? Careful timing of rewards, the use of color and sound, a/b testing on phrasing, email&text reminders, alerts, etc all work to keep you clicking like a trained circus animal.

Look, these people are not working to protect you. They're working to create addictions and deepen existing ones. Frankly I think the medical types should lose their licenses for violation of the Hippocratic Oath: "First, do no harm" indeed. Making devices and software more ADDICTIVE, deliberately creating and encouraging mental illness (addiction) is a disgraceful violation of this oath.

This is an open secret in the video game world, to the point that some COUNTRIES are banning things like 'loot boxes' because they are naked gambling.

The problem began when users became the product being sold. Now the companies feel that they have a right to your mind and eyes, and are not above fostering or even creating clinical addiction to ensure they have access.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this playing out right now with Apple's phones, which get continuously bigger and shinier and brighter with every new generation. Then they give us "Screen Time" and Tim Cook talks about giving people the tools to be aware of how much they're using their phones and to make their own decisions about it. If drug companies said "We're discontinuing Advil for your headaches and replacing all painkillers with small…

I think you’re being an alarmist. My iPhone adds incredible value to my life and I find screen time very useful in helping me control my own urges to over consume enjoyable content. I don’t think people at Apple are intentionally selling you cigarettes or opiate like products. If parents can’t understsnd spending too much time on phones or infront of TV is potentially harmful then it’s common sense we’ve lost. Nothin…

I'm not just talking about kids, I'm talking about adults too.

Smartphones absolutely add a lot of convenience and value. But, in my opinion, most of that value doesn't come from having deliberately addictive media consumption available at your fingertips at half a second's notice. Yet that's what phones are being optimized for.

Does calling an Uber need a 6" screen? Or voice navigation instructions in my car? Shooting photos and videos? GPS tracking my runs?

Most of the things that bigger screens enable are things that I'm trying to minimize, so making these big inviting smartphone screens is no longer adding value to my life. But that's the only phone Apple will sell me. No, it's probably not as bad as opiates. But "not as bad as opiates" is a pretty low bar to set for "should I be OK with this?"

The new Palm small phone thing is a nice idea, except that it's a companion accessory to go with a bigger phone. So close: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/10/25/18022382/...

What I really want is a small phone like that to go with an iPad. With a full size tablet, carrying it and sitting down to use it two handed are enough of a barrier that I can't absentmindedly find myself sucked into a reddit hole.

Maybe that's Apple's plan to sort this out. Make next year's iPhone Max Plus so big that you have to carry it around in your backpack and can't make a habit of staring at it all the time.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#84
post #61

Here's some low hanging fruit to get us started: 1. Ban gambling in games. That is, if real money is involved in the transaction, then there should be no element of chance involved. If not that, at least properly enforce gambling laws to games given that gambling is illegal for children anyways. 2. Decouple real money from in-game money. If you can buy something for real money, you should not be able to acquire it wi…

It’s not just cluelessness that is the problem, it is the motivation, ideology (and influence by funders) of the policy makers. (Speaking here only about US regulation.) More details in my comment above including a link.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#86
post #27

The organization I work for, Common Sense Media, has done a good bit of research on screen time, addiction, and it's effect on families. Here is the report on Technology Addiction: https://www.commonsensemedia.org/research/technology-addicti... Here is our other research reports covering a wide range of media/technology topics effecting children, families and teachers: https://www.commonsensemedia.org/research?page=1

You guys are incredible, thank you so much for what you do!!

Movie and TV reviews have gotten so hung up on performance, star power and visuals that they give us parents very little idea about content. They’re useless in many cases.

I feel like common sense media is an amazing tool for those of us that are concerned with the content in media and helps parents make better decisions.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#87

> There is a looming issue Ms. Stecher sees in the future: Her husband, who is 39, loves video games and thinks they can be educational and entertaining. She does not. I'm still peeved so many people hate video games categorically. Age of Empires & Civilization got me into history as a kid and I checked out dozens of books as a result. Plus, the reason I ended up wanting to learn more about computers was to make game…

"I'm still peeved so many people hate video games categorically."

I think video games are beautiful. I just finished Detroit: Become Human, and I've been playing games since Wolf3d came out. I suspect that the digital story telling in many video games is every bit as much "literature" as any novel, poem, or play.

I also personally saw more people drop out of college because of WoW than drugs.

Just an anecdote.

But I don't feel that video games are any better or worse than smoking cannabis or drinking alcohol, and I don't mind feeling a little grated when folks marketed them to my kids in ways that directly attempt to increase their addictive potential.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#88
I still want to build a MOOP - Massive Open Online Psychology. So much of our lives can be monitored that frankly I think they will be - so we may as well turn that to a positive.

84% of parents with well-behaved children went for a walk instead of allowing a second hour of games. Why don't you press this button, it will give a one minute countdown to all devices in your house.

Your coats are in the hall, apart from Jennifer's who dropped hers in her room.

63% of parent whose children dropped clothes on their bedroom floor have successfully used the phrase "Please hang your clothes up dear, the coat fairy does not visit till next month"

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#89

> There is a looming issue Ms. Stecher sees in the future: Her husband, who is 39, loves video games and thinks they can be educational and entertaining. She does not. I'm still peeved so many people hate video games categorically. Age of Empires & Civilization got me into history as a kid and I checked out dozens of books as a result. Plus, the reason I ended up wanting to learn more about computers was to make game…

RTS games in particular were extremely fun for me, and I don't see how playing hours of Starcraft and C&C wasn't an exercise in strategic thinking. I share Ms. Stecher's skepticism, though. Games today are fundamentally different from what they were when we were growing up (I'm guessing we're around the same age if you were big into AoE). Some of my friends have kids now, and the games I see them playing make me crin…

Talking about and being from that AoE games generation, I think a big part is the absence of any restrictions and incentives to stop. Only very few of my friends back then had unrestricted access to videogames or even TV. And even if they did, there is only so much time you could sink into a sp game before you might want to do other stuff. This even more so for non strategy games. There was only so much you could get from a Super Mario game. Internet access was even more restricted. And they would have been alot stricter if they had known what was out there. You might have heard the web is a fucked up place?

With even smaller kids having a smartphone and constant high speed access to the web, of course they are stuck to the screen. Its a never ending source of keeping you entertained and hooked and you might remember, that being a kid can be boring as hell. With the phones so affordable and everyone doing it, it was kind of inevitable of a development. I think we are witnessing the fallout of that development. With kids stuck to screens and as a reaction the ever increasing demand to make the web more childproof to at least have less of a bad conscience if you let your child have unrestricted access.

I dont think individual parents are to blame though, being a parent is tough and you dont want your kid to be the only one without a smart phone. Neither do I think an all or nothing approach is any more sensible. As always the dosage makes the poison, which is why I think approaches like in french schools are reasonable, who banned smartphones inside the school. Having it established, that there are restrictions to smartphone usage might help parents to establish restrictions as well. However, it all boils down to the question of what is appropriate content for children, and whether the internet is intended to be such childproof content. The answer might simply be no, in which case the only real option would be a second child proof web. Sure, it would be close to impossible to enforce, but so is the ban of giving alcohol to minors. Kids will get their hands on a beer sooner or later, but such bans are usefull enough to not give them easy enough access to drink daily.

But thats something we need to decide as a society. We might decide on something else or keep everything as is, but at least we would have made a decisions. Because we shouldnt kid our self, at the moment we simply keep ignoring the issue only interrupted from short periods of senseless actionism. The availability of smartphones have introduced new circumstances and it is no suprise, that without intervening, they had a clear effect.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#90

> There is a looming issue Ms. Stecher sees in the future: Her husband, who is 39, loves video games and thinks they can be educational and entertaining. She does not. I'm still peeved so many people hate video games categorically. Age of Empires & Civilization got me into history as a kid and I checked out dozens of books as a result. Plus, the reason I ended up wanting to learn more about computers was to make game…

> I'm still peeved so many people hate video games categorically. I'm more annoyed that everytime video games come up, someone brings up Civilization as a strawman to argue. 99% of games aren't Civilization. We all know people are talking about that 99%. The article even calls out that the parents make exceptions for some educational games/screen time. And yet rather than legitimately engage and address peoples conce…

I spent a lot of time playing Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego? and The Legend of Zelda.

I have warm memories of both. But I didn’t learn anything from Zelda- it was pure entertainment and connection to popular culture. I can still hum the theme song. I did learn some stuff from Carmen Sandiego.

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