Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Lyft speeds ahead with its autonomous initiatives

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 95 posts

Re: Lyft speeds ahead with its autonomous initiatives

#81

Post by asdkhadsj »

glibgil wrote: post #60
asdkhadsj wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The government currently lets anyone drive until proven unsafe I mean, sort of - you can't drive unless you pass a test of safety. I'm not sure exactly how that fits your model of "until proven unsafe". Driving without a drivers safety course having passed, ie a drivers license is a serious offense.

> I'm not sure exactly how that fits your model It only takes a written test to get a permit. You don't have to demonstrate safety, only knowledge of the rules of the road. You also need an adult over 21 years old to sit in the passenger seat. It is the lowest of bars

Sure but that's not a permanent thing, and frankly that is comparable to the current testing model of cars.

Furthermore, humans are not crafted beings. We can't cooperatively construct the knowledge of a young driver. Why is the terrible human bar our basis for success? Especially since this bar is only so low so that we can allow companies to compete? To have financial freedom to kill people?

My argument is that public safety does not need to be driven by financial success of companies. We've got the chance here to share knowledge for the common good. Yet, we're holding onto it so that companies can have the chance to make money.

Furthermore, why is "the lowest of bars" (in your words) our metric for success here? Usually the lowest of bars is a bad thing.

Humans are terrible abysmal drivers. I want them off of the road asap. Yet, I don't think hoarding public safety related data for financial success is the best effort towards achieving our goals.

Re: Lyft speeds ahead with its autonomous initiatives

#82

Post by [deleted] »

darawk wrote: post #78
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> This is trivially false. Given infinite data, all possible situations would be represented in the data, and the solutions applied in those situations could be copied exactly, something that existing algorithms are completely capable of doing. In principle. In practice, you'd need infinite time and infinite storage. Btw, do you have to add stuff like "This is trivially false" to your comments? It doesn't make your…

> In principle. In practice, you'd need infinite time and infinite storage. That is irrelevant. > Btw, do you have to add stuff like "This is trivially false" to your comments? It doesn't make your comments sound more right, only less well considered. Trivial in the mathematical sense. As in, there is a trivial counter-example to your point. Citing infinity is a 'trivial' case. I'm using 'trivial' to describe my coun…

[deleted]

Re: Lyft speeds ahead with its autonomous initiatives

#83

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

darawk wrote: post #80
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More data is necessary with current technoloogy , in the sense that modern statistical machine learning algorithms are very bad at generalising to unseen data, and the only way to overcome this is to give them more examples. There are machine learning techniques that generalise well from few data, but they are not very well known in the industry. Also, though more speculatively, I think the idea of "lots of data" is…

> More data is necessary with current technoloogy, in the sense that modern statistical machine learning algorithms are very bad at generalising to unseen data, and the only way to overcome this is to give them more examples. Precisely. > There are machine learning techniques that generalise well from few data, but they are not very well known in the industry. Sure, and we'd all love to be using those. But even if yo…

>> Sure, and we'd all love to be using those. But even if you generalize well from small datasets, you still generalize better from larger ones.

Not to my knowledge. What techniques did you have in mind that work like that?

Re: Lyft speeds ahead with its autonomous initiatives

#84

Post by [deleted] »

darawk wrote: post #78
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> This is trivially false. Given infinite data, all possible situations would be represented in the data, and the solutions applied in those situations could be copied exactly, something that existing algorithms are completely capable of doing. In principle. In practice, you'd need infinite time and infinite storage. Btw, do you have to add stuff like "This is trivially false" to your comments? It doesn't make your…

> In principle. In practice, you'd need infinite time and infinite storage. That is irrelevant. > Btw, do you have to add stuff like "This is trivially false" to your comments? It doesn't make your comments sound more right, only less well considered. Trivial in the mathematical sense. As in, there is a trivial counter-example to your point. Citing infinity is a 'trivial' case. I'm using 'trivial' to describe my coun…

[deleted]

Re: Lyft speeds ahead with its autonomous initiatives

#85

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

darawk wrote: post #78
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> This is trivially false. Given infinite data, all possible situations would be represented in the data, and the solutions applied in those situations could be copied exactly, something that existing algorithms are completely capable of doing. In principle. In practice, you'd need infinite time and infinite storage. Btw, do you have to add stuff like "This is trivially false" to your comments? It doesn't make your…

> In principle. In practice, you'd need infinite time and infinite storage. That is irrelevant. > Btw, do you have to add stuff like "This is trivially false" to your comments? It doesn't make your comments sound more right, only less well considered. Trivial in the mathematical sense. As in, there is a trivial counter-example to your point. Citing infinity is a 'trivial' case. I'm using 'trivial' to describe my coun…

If I may be frank: don't use language in the mathematical sense if you are not in a maths classroom or you dont' know maths.

Re: Lyft speeds ahead with its autonomous initiatives

#86

Post by avelis »

blattimwind wrote: post #72
maged wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lyft is a 15B+ company. Neither Ford, nor any other auto company, has the cash to acquire them.

Toyota has some 150 bn USD in cash reserves.

Toyota has the cash but seems to have trouble understanding that electric is the future of automotive transportation. I hope they figure it out for their sake.

Re: Lyft speeds ahead with its autonomous initiatives

#87

Post by [deleted] »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #85
darawk wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In principle. In practice, you'd need infinite time and infinite storage. That is irrelevant. > Btw, do you have to add stuff like "This is trivially false" to your comments? It doesn't make your comments sound more right, only less well considered. Trivial in the mathematical sense. As in, there is a trivial counter-example to your point. Citing infinity is a 'trivial' case. I'm using 'trivial' to describe my coun…

If I may be frank: don't use language in the mathematical sense if you are not in a maths classroom or you dont' know maths.

[deleted]

Re: Lyft speeds ahead with its autonomous initiatives

#88

Post by darawk »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #83
darawk wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More data is necessary with current technoloogy, in the sense that modern statistical machine learning algorithms are very bad at generalising to unseen data, and the only way to overcome this is to give them more examples. Precisely. > There are machine learning techniques that generalise well from few data, but they are not very well known in the industry. Sure, and we'd all love to be using those. But even if yo…

>> Sure, and we'd all love to be using those. But even if you generalize well from small datasets, you still generalize better from larger ones. Not to my knowledge. What techniques did you have in mind that work like that?

Literally all of them? Linear regression, neural networks, KNN, I could just enumerate all ML methods here, but I think the foregoing is sufficient.

Re: Lyft speeds ahead with its autonomous initiatives

#89

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

darawk wrote: post #88
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Sure, and we'd all love to be using those. But even if you generalize well from small datasets, you still generalize better from larger ones. Not to my knowledge. What techniques did you have in mind that work like that?

Literally all of them? Linear regression, neural networks, KNN, I could just enumerate all ML methods here, but I think the foregoing is sufficient.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Which of the above generalises well from small datasets?

Re: Lyft speeds ahead with its autonomous initiatives

#90

Post by darawk »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #89
darawk wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally all of them? Linear regression, neural networks, KNN, I could just enumerate all ML methods here, but I think the foregoing is sufficient.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Which of the above generalises well from small datasets?

Who said they do? I said they generalize better from larger datasets. The entire point of this discussion is that more data is better.
Post reply on HN