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Marriage Costs in China Are Out of Control

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Re: Marriage Costs in China Are Out of Control

#81

Post by BrandoElFollito »

puranjay wrote: post #28

I would like to see an equivalent study on Indian weddings. All the people I know who got married recently spent between $50-$100k on their wedding. My own wedding was about $50k. Food alone was nearly $20k (over 1200 guests were invited - which was on the low end)

Is the view on smaller marriages changing with the generations?

I had 8 guests at my marriage and reception (France, 1995). It was purely by choice (no money constraints involved) and while the parents were a bit surprised, their opinion is that it was our marriage, not theirs.

This is unusual but when I mention that people are either indifferent or curious. Nobody takes this as "socially degrading" (for lack of a better expression)

Re: Marriage Costs in China Are Out of Control

#82

Post by gaius »

sexydefinesher wrote: post #31
draugadrotten wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Extreme gender imbalances are societally destabilizing Imagine what will happen in Northern Europe after the large influx of asian single men who will want to marry in a few years. China - 114 men for 100 women (wikipedia) Sweden - 123 men for 100 women (BBC) https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35444173

As stated in the article, most of these men/youth have the opportunity for bringing over their families which would smooth-en out the gender imbalances.

But possibly not within their age cohort; that 123:100 ratio is within the 16-17 year bracket, not in Sweden as a whole.

Re: Marriage Costs in China Are Out of Control

#83

Post by fastball »

liftbigweights wrote: post #57
blfr wrote: post #55

A good start would be a law that ensures a woman’s claim on marital property in the case of a divorce. Current Chinese law makes no such provision, and thus provides a strong disincentive to marry and a very powerful incentive to charge higher bride prices. We have laws like this in Europe. Marriages keep happening later and TFRs keep plummeting. Why would it work any different in China. Journalists always push their…

Another false trope pushed by everyone... "Women are marrying later and having less kids because of career concerns, lack of maternity leave and child benefits." The countries with the best maternity leave and child benefits have the oldest marriage and lowest birth rates. And japan, where most women give up their jobs once married to start families and where the government pays women to have children have one of the…

It doesn't matter if Japanese women quit their jobs to raise a family once they're married if they're not getting married[0]

0: https://www.dw.com/en/why-fewer-japanese-are-seeking-marriag...

Re: Marriage Costs in China Are Out of Control

#84

Post by gaius »

watwut wrote: post #18
quotemstr wrote: post #3

Markets always appear next to scarcity, and laws against market operations always drive transactions underground, because supply and demand must be made to meet somehow. Without expressing approval per se of what's happening in China, I do have to express a total lack of surprise that people react to scarcity in one area in the same way they react to scarcity in every other. Extreme gender imbalances are societally d…

Are gender imbalances destabilising historically? It woild be interesting to see the history. After wars there was lack of men in some areas. Excess of men was during gold rush, in Australia and is in silicon valley. (I am not sure how much it proves or disproved theory.)

Are gender imbalances destabilising historically? It woild be interesting to see the history.

I've often wondered to what extent it explains the situation in Afghanistan. If there is a shortage of women anyway due to poor healthcare and other factors, and some men get to have multiple wives, what do the other men do?

Re: Marriage Costs in China Are Out of Control

#85

Post by amrx431 »

namanyayg wrote: post #27
amrx431 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same shit is happening in India. If you dont have a H1B and never worked in US, good luck finding a girl. I am 27 right now and that too a low caste. I am seriously contemplating giving up hopes of marriage and remaining single. Will be tough as I dont have a family. All my family members were killed when I was young. I have stopped bothering and now just bury myself in work and reading to avoid the darkness.

What city do you live in? I'm from Delhi and the situation is very different here for sure. And in India, the girl's family usually pays dowry (usually much more than $10k + gold jewelry) to the guy's family, so that's something literally opposite to China culture? As another commenter mentioned, the situation in metro is developed enough where you'll find a partner through love rather than status.

I am originally from Bihar but currently in Bengaluru. I know about the dowry but in my case its quite the opposite due to my caste. I am low caste(chamar) with no family. Any meaningful and prospective relationship shuts down as soon as my caste comes to light. Should I try moving to Delhi?Would my caste be an issue with girls and their parents from Delhi?

Re: Marriage Costs in China Are Out of Control

#86

Post by fastball »

adventured wrote: post #76
stonecraftwolf wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. This thread is killing me. This might be the only comment so far to even consider women as having agency. When you give women control over their own bodies and equal enough rights to support autonomy — so, treat them like people, basically - it turns out they don’t want to have so many kids, because growing and birthing humans is incredibly taxing and traumatic. The trauma, in particular, is weirdly something t…

There were the famous studies from a few years ago in Israel and Germany that sparked a small cultural spat in the West about regretting motherhood and having a child being a source of immense unhappiness.[1][2] It's of course obvious why they generated so much outrage, centuries of propaganda about motherhood being bliss and the highest calling for women. To quote from the WaPo article below (some people may not be…

So is the solution for women to stop having children and for humanity to die off?

Also, I think the study needs to be much more longitudinal than "2 years on". Arguably the pay off for having children comes much, much later. For some, the pay off doesn't really come until they have grandchildren.

Yes, having children is often a monumental PITA. But humans are social animals, and nothing is really comparable to fill that hole than having a family of your own. The question as posed by the study is silly: yes, you might find less day-to-day happiness if your child is screaming all night long and you need to feed them and change their shitty diapers. But if the question had been 10 years on, and you asked those same mothers "do you regret having children", you would get a very different answer.

Re: Marriage Costs in China Are Out of Control

#87

Post by cm2012 »

liftbigweights wrote: post #56
hkai wrote: post #2

I am planning to hopefully marry my girlfriend in the next couple of years and her parents are already asking for "at least a small amount like 10,000 USD", because "I'm white anyway", meaning I must be rich. Taking into account all the abuse she had to take from them, and their lazy and useless way of life, they're not getting a penny from me. Many people though feel powerless to resist and ruin themselves financial…

> Taking into account all the abuse she had to take from them, and their lazy and useless way of life, they're not getting a penny from me. Then why are you planning to marry "into the family" if you have such a low opinion of them? > Many people though feel powerless to resist and ruin themselves financially by paying it. If $10K is going to ruin you financially, you shouldn't be marrying anyone. Not that I agree wi…

You can marry someone and not marry their family. My korean wife and I both know her family is an abusive horror show and have subsequently cut them off.

Re: Marriage Costs in China Are Out of Control

#89

Post by icebraining »

user5994461 wrote: post #72
chinamarriage wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$10,000 is typical for bride-price in China and only a bit higher than average annual Chinese income. The Chinese do save more than 30% of their income so that is about three years of savings for average earners in China, which is quite high for them admittedly. If you work in a Western country and have a decent job (otherwise why should their daughter marry you anyway?) you can save $10,000 in less than two years. M…

If you work in a Western country (Europe) and have a decent job, there is no way that you save that much unless living with flatmates or parents for years. Yearly income is around 10k, 20k or 30k before taxes, depending which part of Europe it is. It all goes to taxes, then rent, then food and car.

You can live in many places of Europe without a car. Saving 420€/month while earning 30k is definitively possible if your only expenses are rent, utilities, food and public transport.

Re: Marriage Costs in China Are Out of Control

#90

Post by pmorici »

ForHackernews wrote: post #63
liftbigweights wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another false trope pushed by everyone... "Women are marrying later and having less kids because of career concerns, lack of maternity leave and child benefits." The countries with the best maternity leave and child benefits have the oldest marriage and lowest birth rates. And japan, where most women give up their jobs once married to start families and where the government pays women to have children have one of the…

Maybe people don't want to bring children into a world that will be worse off in many ways than the one they grew up in? That hypothesis would correspond with the observation that it's the most educated, most long-term-focused people in (currently) stable societies that are delaying or avoiding children.

"Maybe people don't want to bring children into a world that will be worse off in many ways than the one they grew up in?"

Objective measurements show that the world better off than it was and still improving. [0]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCm9Ng0bbEQ

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