Another +1 for Colemak. I tried both Dvorak and Colemak about 8 years ago. I hated Dvorak, mostly because it ruins ctrl+z/x/c/v shortcuts. Also, right pinky hurt from frequently typing 'l'. Colemak is awesome. Much easier to learn, works well with most keyboard shortcuts, and is has worked well for me ergonomically.
Don't learn Dvorak
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Re: Don't learn Dvorak
#82I've been learning the [Workman](https://workmanlayout.org/) layout in the past few months. I'm using a split Ergodox board, and Dvorak didn't make much sense to me for what I wanted to do. Colemak was _almost_ there but had some really awkward movements that I wasn't enjoying. After a bit of time I now find Workman extremely comfortable, and very logical, particularly for writing prose. It has taken me longer to get the hang of coding on it, but by using a secondary layer on the Ergodox I've got some very comfortable bindings set up for my programming environment. If anyone's curious, here's my current layout (still very much WIP): https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/layouts/DZaM/latest/0
EDIT: Oh, and it hasn't slowed down my QWERTY typing at all, I still keep a standard board on my desk as well. The reason I took up the split board with Workman was because of RSI, and swapping between the two is a good way to vary the movement of my hands.
Re: Don't learn Dvorak
#83I'll give my own experience here.
I switched to Dvorak by using a model M with movable key caps back when I was a teenager. It really was one of the most frustrating experiences with muscle memory I have ever had--in fact it felt painful to receive continual mismatch of intent and results. I think it took me 2 weeks to write sentences without conscious pain, and about 3 months to get to a moderate speed.
Even so, I still type dvorak for more than a decade now. My writing speed isn't really comparably faster with dvorak, but I do believe that it does reduce wrist strain. Ortholinear layouts further reduce some strain for me.
When it comes to QWERTY, I still use it plenty on touch screens, and as a touch typist, I can still do it if I'm on a cheap logitech rubber dome keyboard. Though after a short while I feel like muscles are strained in my hands on physical keyboards.
It is near impossible for me to type QWERTY on a mechanical keyboard or a macbook keyboard. The touch feel I have is so attuned to that layout (despite not having the legends on the key caps in dvorak) that I am continually making mistakes or reverting back to dvorak mid sentence.
I don't regret my decision at all, though my coworkers are intimidated by it.
Re: Don't learn Dvorak
#84If you're considering learning Dvorak, I'd strongly recommend considering Colemak instead. I tried Dvorak with the hope that it would mitigate RSI, but it spreads the work among fingers pretty unevenly -- I really ended up just moving the problem rather than fixing it (mostly to my right pinky). Colemak is (relatively) easy to learn if you know QWERTY, and it's been life-changing for me: I can work for more hours of…
What is your experience when you have to use the QWERTY layout? Is it a frustrating experience or can you use it just fine given that Colemak is more similar to it than Dvorak?
I've used Colemak for 5 years now. I've always just hobbled along with Qwerty, not pecking, but not really touch typing.
However, I rarely need to use Qwerty. It's less than once per week. The only times are when I'm in the UEFI settings on my laptop, or fixing my wife's computer. Any other time I have my own user, and can switch the layout to what I like.
Re: Don't learn Dvorak
#85Keyboard layout doesn't matter for typing speed . There are endless videos on YouTube of people typing 90+ WPM with two fingers . I use Dvorak at home because it's more comfortable and I hope will prevent RSI in the future. I keep my work laptop in Qwerty because sometimes other people have to type on it. I switch between both layouts with ease. My Qwerty typing speed is slightly slower, but that has not had material…
I fixed my RSI with Dvorak, after trying split keyboards, gel pads, exercises, whatever.
Cons: That said, after finally learning it I realized that Cut/Copy/Paste will forever be broken for me on Windows.
I am now a hunt-and-peck typist on Qwerty, which doesn't bother me.
Pros: It's a good security device, like a manual transmission - at least against non-hacker mortals.
Programming doesn't really benefit from touch typing. But my touch typing speed without concentrating is much higher with Dvorak. I can type far faster without trying.
Re: Don't learn Dvorak
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
It takes me about a minute to switch gears, then I’m fine. I started using Dvorak full time over 20 years ago.
The hardest I find is when i use the keyboard of someone else I know who happens to use Dvorak, there is about a minute of wtf dude... sometimes even if I know they use Dvorak!!
It's also a great party trick. I once lent my computer to my daugther and her buddy, it was kind weird for them that no keys matched up, but even weirder when I showed them I could easily switch between the two. They were so sure I wouldn't be able to type with qwerty.
Their faces at that point were priceless :)
Re: Don't learn Dvorak
#87I learned to type blindly informally on QWERTY and I use only my index fingers and my pinkies. I actually move my arms a little when typing. I'm reasonably fast, certainly fast enough for anything I do.
I have never had any problem with wrist stain and just from trying out "proper touch typing", I feel like my way of typing is far less straining and "more natural". That could just be confirmation bias of course.
SURVEY:
Who else has learned typing similarly to me and what have been your experiences?
Re: Don't learn Dvorak
#88I use dvorak as my daily driver. I'm still able to use qwerty, and while my typing speed is not as fast, it's still adequately usable.
However, an extended typing session in qwerty just feels...weird. I feel vaguely unbalanced, and I'm more likely to get off by one key left or right (while touch-typing). It also tends to put me in four-finger typing mode, rather than eight-finger.
Can any users of Colemak / other layouts who have also used Dvorak comment on whether the Dvorak->Colemak migration is worth it?
Re: Don't learn Dvorak
#89If you want to do it hust for typing speed, it seems pointless. I typed fast on azerty and now I am typing fast on qwerty. (around 145-155wpm). But when does typing speed actually matter?
Real-time speech-to-text transcription. Closed captioning for live events, and such. That's the only thing I can think of.
That's true, I was thinking too much in my box of software development it seems :)
Re: Don't learn Dvorak
#90I use dvorak as my daily driver. I'm still able to use qwerty, and while my typing speed is not as fast, it's still adequately usable. However, an extended typing session in qwerty just feels...weird. I feel vaguely unbalanced, and I'm more likely to get off by one key left or right (while touch-typing). It also tends to put me in four-finger typing mode, rather than eight-finger. Can any users of Colemak / other lay…
I also retained ability to type on qwerty even though I've been using dvorak exclusively for the last 10+ years (I need to write a few commands on qwerty a few times a year).
I think that's actually the first time I hear about somebody who "forgot" how to type on qwerty after switching to dvorak/colemak. I wonder how long has he been using qwerty before switching.