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How America lost its love for the stick shift

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Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#81

Post by ubernostrum »

arielweisberg wrote: post #26

I learned to drive stick at 34 just for fun. Now own a Mazda 3 and MX-5. Worth it. It's not about out performing an automatic transmission it's about engagement. For some people that's not going to have any value. For others there is no going back to numb econoboxes with automatic transmissions. It's a shame more people don't get over the hump and get to see what driving can be vs. what it is for most.

I have completely the opposite view. To me, all the "engagement" type arguments just feel like someone telling me that they still insist on using only rotary telephones, because it makes them feel more "engaged" with the telephone, "closer to the machine", etc.

So I don't find anything magical or special about having to manually manage the gears when a computer could do it more efficiently and relieve me of the need to worry about it. When I'm driving I want to be focused on the road and traffic around me, not micromanaging the way the engine is transmitting power.

Or maybe to go with a car analogy: what if we took away your accelerator pedal and replaced it with a crank attached to a fuel pump, so you had to constantly turn the crank to get fuel, and turn it faster or slower to manage the throttle and the amount of fuel going to the engine? You'd be much more deeply "connected" to your car that way, but would you rhapsodize about what a wonderful experience it was? Or would you see it for what it is: a task that can be done with more efficiency and less distraction by a different approach?

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#82

Post by AWildC182 »

dazc wrote: post #37
AWildC182 wrote: post #29

I like manuals because they feel better to me. This is totally anecdotal but to me it seems like the stick keeps me more engaged with what's happening with the car so I find I tend to be less distracted. It also occupies a hand so it definitely prevents a lot of phone usage. If this could actually be proved I'd definitely welcome a return to manual transmissions as sometimes I feel like the only person not on their p…

'...so it definitely prevents a lot of phone usage. From the UK, where stick shift is very much the norm, it doesn't.

I doubt it prevents it, but I think it might lessen it. I remember at one point in my teens seeing someone driving a manual Miata in traffic while putting on makeup, texting and drinking a soda, all in a car famous for not having cup holders. It was pretty impressive...

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#83

Post by sithadmin »

ryandrake wrote: post #75

I’ve driven standard transmission for upwards of 15 years and see no need to change. If I were a conspiracy theorist, I’d be convinced that this trend was part of a country-wide conspiracy to take all the fun and excitement out of driving. It seems like every automotive engineering decision since the 80s has been dominated by occupant safety and comfort, and fuel efficiency, to the detriment of everything else. It’s…

There are plenty of interesting, fun-to-drive new models on the market in nearly every category...on the condition that you're looking at the right price point.

>It seems like every automotive engineering decision since the 80s has been dominated by occupant safety and comfort, and fuel efficiency, to the detriment of everything else.

Yes, of course. Regulators (and hence automakers) have realized that a failure to continue to optimize on these features implies an unnecessarily high mortality rate associated with vehicle usage, either directly (in accidents) or indirectly (through pollution and climate change). And for what it's worth: The type of whining you're doing here isn't helpful to the auto enthusiast community -- it comes off as ignorant and entitled to non-enthusiasts.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#84

Post by kenhwang »

taurath wrote: post #65

Ctrl-F "traffic" shows up nothing in the article - there's not much discussion of "why" other than the technology is better. Truth is that when you are stuck in bumper to bumper traffic, stopping and starting, manuals are tedious and not a good experience.

Yup, this is more or less the reason.

I have what's regarded as the best manual transmission in production on my Porsche, but in traffic, the automatic transmission on my econobox Mazda3 still does a better job moving the car from a stop smoothly with minimal impact on fuel economy with almost zero effort. On the Porsche, I'm either slipping the clutch causing more wear or having very jerky/abrupt starts, revving a bit more than necessary or risking stalling/bogging by short shifting.

Sure, the manual is a lot more fun and engaging to drive, but most people are simply content with commuting with an appliance.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#85

Post by taylodl »

I've been driving a manual transmission all my life, and I'm not exactly young. Why do I drive a manual? It makes driving an enjoyable experience rather than a chore. I've even changed my commute to maximize that experience. Rather than inch along the freeway mile after mile I take a state route running alongside a river. Lots of curves and pretty views. Yeah it takes a few minutes longer but my mental health is far better for it. It makes for a great transition between home/work and work/home.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#86

Post by Someone1234 »

IshKebab wrote: post #78
Someone1234 wrote: post #48

There's little argument for manual transmission anymore except in larger vehicles. There used to be an efficiency gap, in that a good manual driver was more efficient than an automatic. But two things have happened since then, we have computer controlled transmissions and CVTs. Manual drivers were more efficient because they learned when the vehicle would need to shift, and shifted preemptively. A computer controlled…

Are manuals not cheaper to manufacture and repair? Definitely in the UK since 90% of cars are still manual.

Even if they are, a CVT saves enough fuel over its lifetime to offset the cost (5 MpG combined more efficient in some cases).

The UK is moving away from manuals for hybrid and fully electric vehicles which often use a CVT, or no transmission in some cases (direct drive).

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#87

Post by nkantar »

S_A_P wrote: post #72

Manuals have been selected out of the marketplace by dealer sales managers. I would love to own at least one manual transmission vehicle. Most that Ive considered in recent history were available with a manual, and the ones that are available as a manual are impossible to find or special order only.

There was a story somewhere (I can't find it now) about how a big part of the lack of car color options in the US is that consumers are used to buying cars directly off dealer lots.

According to the article, this makes the consumer into the customer of the dealer, and not the manufacturer. As such, the dealer is the manufacturer's true customer, and their demand is what drives production and availability.

The dealer, naturally, optimizes their inventory for the best sellers, which are generally grayscale colors, so that's what they order from the manufacturer. When the customer shows up, the limited choices often force compromises, which turn into statistics used to further optimize inventory.

The way out of this loop is for the customer to insist on the exact desired configuration.

The problem is that many (most?) people don't care enough to wait for three months instead of driving home in their new car the same day. This is further exacerbated by the dealer's willingness to offer a better deal on a car that's on the lot than one that has to be ordered.

I wouldn't be surprised if transmission availability plays into this to some extent, though probably not quite as much. After all, manuals are still generally cheaper in terms of MSRP, but dealer pricing may negate and even reverse that advantage.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#88

Post by Someone1234 »

mulmen wrote: post #50
AWildC182 wrote: post #29

I like manuals because they feel better to me. This is totally anecdotal but to me it seems like the stick keeps me more engaged with what's happening with the car so I find I tend to be less distracted. It also occupies a hand so it definitely prevents a lot of phone usage. If this could actually be proved I'd definitely welcome a return to manual transmissions as sometimes I feel like the only person not on their p…

We should just revoke drivers licenses for people who can't operate cars responsibly. It's way too easy to get a license and keep one in the US today. We don't even re-test.

Outside of the East and West coasts and other high density cities, it is difficult to revoke licenses simply because there's no infrastructure in place as an alternative to driving.

Large parts of the US today there's no public transport, and even no sidewalks(!) in some places. You could ride a bike, but that requires physicality and drivers aren't exactly bike-friendly.

If there was a realistic alternative to driving, you might see it become easier to revoke a driver's license, but until then, it just isn't viable.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#89

Post by mikestew »

IshKebab wrote: post #78
Someone1234 wrote: post #48

There's little argument for manual transmission anymore except in larger vehicles. There used to be an efficiency gap, in that a good manual driver was more efficient than an automatic. But two things have happened since then, we have computer controlled transmissions and CVTs. Manual drivers were more efficient because they learned when the vehicle would need to shift, and shifted preemptively. A computer controlled…

Are manuals not cheaper to manufacture and repair? Definitely in the UK since 90% of cars are still manual.

You know why automatics are sealed these days? They don't expect them to need service. Here in the U. S., I actually had to call around to find someone that would do a clutch. When I was a Firestone mechanic lo those twenty some years ago, we'd drop a tranny and throw clutch plates in all the time (book time paid more time than it took me to do it). Neither of the local Firestones would touch it when I called.

Point is, automatics are pretty sturdy these days, and there are fewer shops in the U. S. that will work on manuals anymore.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#90

Post by mjklin »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #30

In the UK most cars are still manual. Less so for the more expensive you go but I'd guess more than 90%. I have driven automatics a handful of times. The longest I spent was 2 weeks in a motor home touring the Rockies. While I can see the appeal for around town driving driving up and down grades was a bit of a pain. Basically I had to learn the behaviour of the transmission and use a combination of the exact amount o…

You’ve brought up a good reason why Americans should learn manual: in case they rent cars in other countries. I rented a car in Costa Rica whose clutch had been destroyed by the previous renter, which fact did not make itself plain until we were on a mountain road. Wish he had learned stick!
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