Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data • Hacker News Board

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#81

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:02 PM UTC

cecilpl2 wrote: post #77

iDemonix wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heaven forbid a foreign company knew about my heart rate and age.

And then determined that you actually are 80% more likely to have early stage heart disease based on a big data analysis tool, and then sold that information to an insurance company, which correlated it with other data they have (like strava's activity times) to uniquely identify you, and now wants to raise your premiums by 400% because you have a "increased likelihood of a pre-existing condition".

[deleted]

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#82

Post by thecatspaw » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:14 PM UTC

cecilpl2 wrote: post #78

wil421 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you care so much? No one is forcing people to use FitBit. If you don’t agree with their practices or data collection then don’t use their products.

Was FitBit upfront about this when they sold their products though? I don't actually know the answer and I think that's a critical piece of information.

People buy fitbits to track and record their stats.

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#83

Post by atmartins » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:15 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #73

saagarjha wrote: post #4

> modern smartwatches and fitness bands can track your pulse continuously, day and night, for months. Imagine what you could learn if you collected all that data from tens of millions of people! Please no. Surely nobody thought collecting health data from all their users was a good idea, right? > That’s exactly what Fitbit (FIT) has done. It has now logged 150 billion hours’ worth of heart-rate data. From tens of mil…

Why do you care so much? No one is forcing people to use FitBit. If you don’t agree with their practices or data collection then don’t use their products.

I care because if companies can collect enough data to recognize patterns, and generalize those findings, it becomes everyone's problem. You don't think health insurance providers are dying to buy this data? Or drug manufacturers? You're being double sold and generalized.

For instance maybe insurance rates increase in a region showing a higher percentage of heart palpitations. I live there and now my rates increased even though I don't even own a bitfit.

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#84

Post by 013a » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:16 PM UTC

Bishonen88 wrote: post #5

rawoke083600 wrote: post #3

Now if only it were accurate...

Am a Garmin user for years. Was in a hospital ~10 months ago and was connected to a heart-rate-monitoring-thingy via a finger-clip. At the same time I had my Garmin Fenix 3 on my other arm. Was looking at the screen and comparing it to what my watch was showing and it was +-2 points at all times. Tried holding my breath to see what happens and both were almost identical.

I did something similar during a cardiac stress test, with a Fitbit Versa. My best conclusion was that the Fitbit is at least +/-5 BPM off and it lagged behind the hospital equipment by roughly 15 seconds (judging by heart rate peaks).

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#85

Post by krisroadruck » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:17 PM UTC

cecilpl2 wrote: post #77

iDemonix wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heaven forbid a foreign company knew about my heart rate and age.

And then determined that you actually are 80% more likely to have early stage heart disease based on a big data analysis tool, and then sold that information to an insurance company, which correlated it with other data they have (like strava's activity times) to uniquely identify you, and now wants to raise your premiums by 400% because you have a "increased likelihood of a pre-existing condition".

I never actually understood the objection to having people who are putting a greater draw on the insurance system, pay more into it. People who have more accidents also pay higher car insurance premiums. Why shouldn't this be the case for health insurance?

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#86

Post by wlesieutre » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:18 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #80

TeMPOraL wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fitbit is not a medical R&D company. It's a fitness gadget vendor. Is all this data used for furthering medical research? If so, by whom? If not, why does Fitbit need it, and what does it do with it?

There is no medical R&D comapny that could run a test that fitbit runs as a sideshow to their business. So either fitbit gathers this data or noone does. What will it do with the data? I hope it will anonimise it reasonably and puts it up on the internet for free but that's a bit unrealistic. I think it will pass the data to researchers, similar way other companies did in the past. That's beneficial in my book and I…

Personally I trust the recently completed[1] Apple/Stanford heart study with my health data a lot more. It's a company with a record of protecting personal data, and on the Stanford side was presumably approved by an IRB before they collected a single piece of data.

Granted it's not the same dataset as you'd get from a "Collect everything and figure out what to do with it later" approach, but I think it strikes a better balance.

For all we know, Fitbit's eventual plan is to sell their heart data to your insurance company so they can say "It looks like you have a higher than average resting heart rate and don't exercise much, we're going to double your premiums." Heck, maybe Fitbit isn't planning that, but they'll go out of business in 20 years and auction your heartrate history to someone else who does that. We have no idea.

[1] https://9to5mac.com/2018/09/01/apple-heart-study-survey/

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#87

Post by chadmeister » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:19 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #80

TeMPOraL wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fitbit is not a medical R&D company. It's a fitness gadget vendor. Is all this data used for furthering medical research? If so, by whom? If not, why does Fitbit need it, and what does it do with it?

There is no medical R&D comapny that could run a test that fitbit runs as a sideshow to their business. So either fitbit gathers this data or noone does. What will it do with the data? I hope it will anonimise it reasonably and puts it up on the internet for free but that's a bit unrealistic. I think it will pass the data to researchers, similar way other companies did in the past. That's beneficial in my book and I…

Or you know, they pass it on to your insurer who can trivially deanonamize it...

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#88

Post by chadmeister » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:20 PM UTC

Deganta wrote: post #33

saagarjha wrote: post #4

> modern smartwatches and fitness bands can track your pulse continuously, day and night, for months. Imagine what you could learn if you collected all that data from tens of millions of people! Please no. Surely nobody thought collecting health data from all their users was a good idea, right? > That’s exactly what Fitbit (FIT) has done. It has now logged 150 billion hours’ worth of heart-rate data. From tens of mil…

I'm currently thinking about buying a fitness tracker, and this article definitely rules out a Fitbit. Does anyone know a fitness tracker that does not share my personal health data with anyone?

I think your best bet might actually be an apple iwatch

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#89

Post by anon08142018 » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:21 PM UTC

mscasts wrote: post #36

While I am a privacy advocate in most aspects, I fail to see how my basic health data like HR, weight etc is going to be used against me except for bad marketing practices. If I talk ill about some political ideologies and that gets stored until some evil dictator gets in power, that I can get. But who is going to put me in prison for having a high heart rate? The benefits in the other hand is great. I get to see and…

Using your basic health data like HR and weight against you would make a great episode of Black Mirror actually.

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#90

Post by betenoire » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:34 PM UTC

krisroadruck wrote: post #85

cecilpl2 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then determined that you actually are 80% more likely to have early stage heart disease based on a big data analysis tool, and then sold that information to an insurance company, which correlated it with other data they have (like strava's activity times) to uniquely identify you, and now wants to raise your premiums by 400% because you have a "increased likelihood of a pre-existing condition".

I never actually understood the objection to having people who are putting a greater draw on the insurance system, pay more into it. People who have more accidents also pay higher car insurance premiums. Why shouldn't this be the case for health insurance?

You should draw up some numbers based on real scenarios and see if your theory holds.