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Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

nytimes.com

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Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#81

Post by tptacek »

crazygringo wrote: post #67
tptacek wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? We're all generally well-paid (even with respect to the value we create). But this whole message board is practically dedicated to the ways in which our industry pisses us off, from confiscatory IP clauses to open offices to death march projects. Who's to say labor can't organize simply for a better shop to work in? That's not unprecedented.

Because conservatives are anti-union and anti-NLRB. Edit: why the heck am I being downvoted? I'm literally just explaining what I assumed the GP was referring to.

I agree about the irony. I think it's pretty sad that in the last 12 months, the two major tech/labor stories have been about conservative employees pushing back against supposedly-liberal corporations. But, whatever. A wakeup call is a wakeup call. I think these FB people can succeed, and should succeed.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#82

Post by jachee »

nyolfen wrote: post #46
stochastic_monk wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a massive difference between calculated misinformation with incitement to violence and having differing views.

> incitement to violence good point, do you feel this way about people who say 'punch a nazi'?

[flagged]

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#83

Post by throwaway_45 »

tptacek wrote: post #58
euroclydon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that a bunch of highly paid conservative software developers would unionize and get the NLRB involved is rich.

Why? We're all generally well-paid (even with respect to the value we create). But this whole message board is practically dedicated to the ways in which our industry pisses us off, from confiscatory IP clauses to open offices to death march projects. Who's to say labor can't organize simply for a better shop to work in? That's not unprecedented.

FB is monopoly at this point. Very few people there are irreplaceable. If this was was a startup you might have more leverage. Mr. Amerige probably doesn't have much here. Mr. Amerige is probably making good money. If he gets fired good luck trying to get another job. Companies hate controversy.

Trump won because of Facebook. I don't know why these guys are complaining.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#84

Post by _8j50 »

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant.

In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem.

What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place.

Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to trump,telling workers to attend 'lgbt tolerance' meetings,etc... Wth!!!!

If you are my coworker,I respect you as a colleague and a human being. Your private life and beliefs are not mine to police or encourage in anyway. Left,right,etc... Who cares? You're at work!

Look at it this way,if your company is pro something,it can be anti- that same thing as soon as it becomes profitable to do so. Imagine not being able to work in tech because how you vote,pray or who you associate with becomes inconvenient to the industry.

This is my question for you: Are you willing to surrender your right to believe what you want,associate with whom you want and support the political causes that matter to you in exchange for your political views and ideology becoming the norm you can't deviate from?

What is the alternative? Do politics with your friends, family and community,associate with whom you want and believe what you want. When at work respect your colleagues,not because of their politics and beliefs but because 1) they're human 2) you would want to be respected if you were in their shoes 3) out of respect for your own self

This isn't about left vs right or kkk vs blm. It's about corporations vs individuals,who decides what views,beliefs and associations are acceptable. Should society be run by the people or by the ruling class and their corporate machine?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#85

Post by mgiampapa »

I worked for Facebook for almost 6 years and I wouldn't say it's culture is any more liberal than the rest of the SF bay area.

For this population, they see their own views as normal and the center. While from the outside conservatives think it's far left of center, the "dozens" of employees who don't feel this way are the outliers. There are "dozens" of employees who feel FB's culture isn't liberal enough. With an employee base of tens of thousands you are going to have disagreements in philosophy, but Facebook does nothing to hide the company culture in it's hiring practice. There is no bait and switch going on. Other voices are heard, but if you have a minority viewpoint you shouldn't expect the world to pivot around what you think is right.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#86

Post by _iyig »

brainkim wrote: post #45
manfredo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The following views were listed on the memo: * Support of President Trump (e.g. Thiel's and Palmer Lucky's campaign contributions) * "All lives matter" * Criticism of Islam's human rights record. * Calling the company's art politically radical . Which, if any, of these views don't deserve respect?

The first three are deeply problematic and rooted in deep-seated white supremacist beliefs and absent mitigating circumstances I’d consider firing people who held them. Sorry, that’s just how I have to feel given everything that’s been going on these days.

I don’t agree that all criticism of misogynistic divorce laws, violence against “immodest” women, and application of the death penalty for homosexuality or apostasy is driven by “deeply-rooted white supremacy.”

I would fire anyone who held such a belief, as I would not trust them around female, gay, or ex-Muslim co-workers.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#87

Post by _mhyx »

The comments in this thread are shocking, Inquisition level stuff. I can't believe I spend time here.

Remember when HN was tech stuff? Now it's:

  manfredo 16 minutes ago 
  
  The following views were listed on the memo:
  
  * Support of President Trump (e.g. This and Palmer Lucky's campaign contributions)
  
  * "All lives matter"
  
  * Criticism of Islam's human rights record.
  
  * Calling the company's art politically radical .
  
  Which, if any, of these views don't deserve respect?
  
  reply
  	
  	
  brainkim 9 minutes ago | 
  
  The first three are deeply problematic and rooted in deep-seated white supremacist beliefs and were it up to me 
  I would fire anyone who held those views. 
  Sorry, that’s just how I have to feel these given everything that’s been going on these days.
Who are these people? Is this just satire? Am I just getting old, and no one cares about freedom to disagree, debate, etc? Do people not have historical context about suppressing dissenting opinions, even if you hate them?

Am I crazy, and the world has just moved on to be horrible?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#88

Post by downandout »

ctvo wrote: post #17
fastball wrote: post #7

Seems like it's fairly true if they're already getting complaints from employees while not breaking any actual company policies.

And those employees complaining were told they're not breaking any company policies. Their group is still open and nothing has been done against them. What a controversy.

It actually is a sign of something terribly wrong with the company's culture. If a notoriously liberal company determined that complaints about "racially offensive" posts in this group were false, then one can reasonably believe that the complaints were indeed false. That means that other employees were simply lodging false complaints to interfere with this group's right to exist.

Think about that for a second. Other employees were so outraged by a tiny handful of their colleagues banding together to express mildly conservative views that they lied to the company about the content in this group in an attempt to eradicate them from existence. That is the opposite of tolerance, and it is reveals a toxic underbelly at a disturbingly powerful company. Everyone, regardless of political affiliation, should be concerned by that.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#89

Post by manfredo »

wrsh07 wrote: post #71
manfredo wrote: post #59

As I have mentioned in other threads, of the dozens or possibly hundreds of co-workers I've worked directly with during my time so far in Silicon Valley I have met exactly one who disclosed conservative views and support of the Republican party. Either one, there really is a massive lack of political diversity to the extent that less than 1% SV developers are conservativez or (more likely in my opinion) two, there is…

I find this incredibly surprising. Do you give them a chance to? So many of my colleagues (at a big tech co) have expressed various conservative views. Granted, I live in NYC, but this feels a bit like you're experiencing confirmation bias.

Yes, I've discussed politics with many of my coworkers. Few of them have any hesitation discussing liberal standpoints. I can only assume that conservatives are staying silent.

I can't claim to speak for conservatives, but I can totally understand why they would stay silent given the atmosphere. See the reply to my other comment, where a HN poster straight up says they would fire any employees that support Trump: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17864280

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#90

Post by [deleted] »

tptacek wrote: post #22

Good for them. The structural change needed in our industry is for labor (or, to use a term we're apparently more comfortable with, "talent") to reassert itself, and for tech giants to reconcile themselves to the fact that they're accountable not just to their shareholders but to their employees. I hope this gets nasty, and that these FB employees ultimately find recourse in the NLRA. We forget that this industry is…

[deleted]
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