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Why Love Generative Art?

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Re: Why Love Generative Art?

#81
post #22

The problem with generative art is not that it isn’t considered art by everyone. The main problems are: - It is very difficult to value. One can’t see at a glance whether it took time or skill to create. And similar to other types of art that involve mechanical reproduction, e.g. photography, generative art can be produced on demand, it’s not irreplaceable like a sculpture or painting is. - It usually lacks a good st…

> It usually lacks a good story.

Then it's not generative art. Without the story, generative art is just procedural / computer generated art. And indeed because of the mass-production related reasons you name, that sort of art is less valuable.

Because why this particular instance, this random seed, and not the billions of others giving rise to similar-yet-not-similar artworks that never were? Without the story of the process, there is no answer to this question and it diminishes the value of the art to something that simply "looks nice". Maybe the story is just "because the artist randomly saw this particular one out of billions and decided they liked it enough" -- which isn't the best story, IMHO.

Generative art is really all about the process. You can have a camera on a plant, producing pseudo-random numbers that generate an image, video or sound. Now you have a story. You can do something similar but instead use the crowd of people walking past your art piece, and you have a different story. You can adapt the way it visualises so that it fits the story. But most importantly, you create a meaningful answer to the question "why this particular instantiation?"

It goes as far that the visualisation (or audio or whatever) can be relatively simple or unoriginal as long as the story behind it is REALLY interesting, you've got a great piece of generative art.

The reverse, however, is not. If you got a great visualisation, that is super intriguing to look at, yet the story behind it is merely an afterthought or almost non-existent, you've got a great piece of procedural / computer-generated art. It's not very good generative art if the process doesn't play a prominent role in the story. It might be nicer to look at, probably easier to sell because it looks nice and people are more likely to want to hang it on their walls. But making things because you want to sell them is craft (which is cool, if you want to make a living--of course you can do both).

> many art consumers will similarly buy when the story is right, and avoid art they love when it has a bad or boring story

What the hell is an "art consumer". If you want to sell something then yes, it's gotta have some utility value. That's what separates art from craft. I'm not sure how that's relevant. It sounds to me like your problem is with commercial exploitation of your art.

There's a certain arrogance in the statement that "art consumers" will avoid art they love if it has a boring story. Who do you think you are to decide for your audience what art they "really love" and what not. If you mean that they avoid art that they find like really, really PRETTY, but then avoid it because there is no story and it's just one instance out of billions of random seeds and value it appropriately, then that's a pretty superficial way to look at what it means to "really love" a piece of art.

Of course the story is important. The alternative is getting your craft up to the level that it outshines any possible lack of story.

Re: Why Love Generative Art?

#82
post #22

The problem with generative art is not that it isn’t considered art by everyone. The main problems are: - It is very difficult to value. One can’t see at a glance whether it took time or skill to create. And similar to other types of art that involve mechanical reproduction, e.g. photography, generative art can be produced on demand, it’s not irreplaceable like a sculpture or painting is. - It usually lacks a good st…

I also love generative art ... mostly .... and I've made quite a bit but ....... The problem I have is generally when it appears to me it didn't require much effort. Making a program that draws random dots, random rectangles, random lines, is almost a rite of passage for new programmers. A lot of generative art looks like hardly many more steps beyond that. Draw 100 rectangle each slightly smaller and rotated from th…

I understand your problem and I agree it is hard. But consider for a moment the type of paintings that make people go "my 3 year old niece could do this".

If you don't know the artist, know nothing about their intents and method of work, really how do you tell the difference between certain styles and that of a child or amateur?

How do you tell the difference between a Mondriaan and somebody's first graphics coding exercise?

Re: Why Love Generative Art?

#83
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem with generative art is not that it isn’t considered art by everyone. Abstract Art in general isn't considered "Art" by everyone, especially in the days of Abstract Expressionism and Jackson Pollack. While I do appreciate the thoughts around generative art, these discussions are not new. But it is a new generation using new tools, re-discovering the arguments from the mid 20th century. The question isn't…

Good points. A minor thing, generative art isn't necessarily abstract art, though currently almost exclusively is. (Oh and spelled Pollock.) Regarding validation, it might not matter for some, but might for others. I'm sure there were quite a few great artists who wouldn't have done their art at the same level had there not been validation as art. Something more mundane, recognition is likely a big factor in whether…

> A minor thing, generative art isn't necessarily abstract art, though currently almost exclusively is.

Thank you. There's a lot of people throwing around art terminology in this thread and it doesn't always make sense.

Generative art only has to output through a photorealistic renderer and suddenly it's no longer "abstract", but "surrealism". This demonstrates how little sense it makes to apply such terms to generative art.

Let alone the fact that it's multimedia and the term really only applies to visual art. You could have "abstract music", I guess, but it means something completely different.

It's an interesting discussion though.

Re: Why Love Generative Art?

#84
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel it's the same with music. You can't really 'tune' a Katy Perry song more to appeal a classic music lover and vice versa. > my story just isn't compelling to people who... Your work should tell a story, and the method of creation is secondary. I totally appreciate if you used equations I can't even grasp, but my mother shouldn't know about that at all and she can still consider it nice. There was a guy who post…

> Your work should tell a story No, that's nonsense. Tons of art throughout history told no story and was still compelling. Pollock, Balanchine, Schoenberg, etc. did abstract works that tell no story. (In fact, Balanchine specifically made it a point to not have a story.)

Pollock's art definitely has a story, it's the story of the creation of his works and he even made videos about that.

And this, that story of creation, is the story that all generative art--as far as I've always understood the term--must share.

The art in generative art is for a large part the story of its creation, crystallised in the form of an algorithm.

Without that, you ultimately get computer-generated art or something. Which is often nice to look at, but has about the emotional impact of a fancy photoshop filter.

Compare to this artist, I forget her name (I think it's a she), wrote algorithms/instructions on paper, to be executed by a group of people (I think explicitly without her presence, IIRC). There's no computer involved and it's still generative art. It's entirely about the process.

Now of course most generative art is a mixture of the two, which is good because we like pretty things.

Re: Why Love Generative Art?

#85
post #3

Good retrospective. Excellent playlist on youtube of early computer art, including some of Manfred Mohr's films that still have the power to hold the attention of modern, distracted minds ;) https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmmzCSWIggxABGOurYq2I...

They left out the demoscene :(

I mean, it's not generative art (with a few exceptions) but it definitely is computer art. In the early 2000s I went to demoparties that had over 2000 attendees. These were combined showcase/gallery events with competitions and live art. Imagine a LAN-party where no one's gaming, but instead coding, drawing or producing music (and socialising--because "real party is outside"). And when I go to check, the scene is still active today. That's gotta count for something, right? :)

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