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Bitcoin's Use in Commerce Keeps Falling

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Re: Bitcoin's Use in Commerce Keeps Falling

#81

Post by [deleted] »

jstanley wrote: post #34
TACIXAT wrote: post #21

A currency with no mechanism for monetary policy is not going to be adopted. Bitcoin is purely deflationary for more reasons than just people losing their keys. For example, a fixed reward split between a growing group of miners will also cause a rising price floor. The miners will not sell for less than their electricity costs, which makes the smaller piece of the block reward they receive have a higher price. So yo…

> The miners will not sell for less than their electricity costs, which makes the smaller piece of the block reward they receive have a higher price. That's not how it works. If you spent $100 in electricity and you have an asset that's worth $50, you can either sell it for $50 and only be down $50 on your electricity, or you can not sell it at all and be down $100 on your electricity. Electricity cost of mining does…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin's Use in Commerce Keeps Falling

#82

Post by tom_ »

wgerard wrote: post #73
tom_ wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK a capital gain (or loss) may occur when you use Bitcoin to buy something, whatever that thing is. (Buying something with Bitcoin is effectively selling Bitcoin for that thing. The thing has a value, and that is some evidence that the Bitcoin is worth that much.) This is a taxable event and if the gain is large enough then you'll need to pay the tax on it. I imagine many countries have rules that are quite s…

Interesting - so wait, if I send someone in the UK bitcoin and they sell it immediately for GBP, does that count as a capital gain? Or just if the price changes between when they receive it and convert it to GBP? EDIT: I guess it doesn't really matter in this case since presumably short-term capital gains rate is similar (or equal) to the income tax rate, but just curious for my own sake.

The gain is the difference between the value when they got it and the value when they sold it, so probably nothing if they do both on the same day. I guess you may have made a gain when you gave the Bitcoin away, since it's treated as a disposal at the market rate... maybe? I don't know the rules for this.

(Regarding speed of selling - there's no short-term CGT rate in the UK, but there are rules about quick turnaround that may apply. Consult an accountant.)

Re: Bitcoin's Use in Commerce Keeps Falling

#83

Post by grubles »

socrates1998 wrote: post #70

It sounds weird, but I think a big part of Bitcoin's, and other crypto's value, isn't in the day to day ability to use it to buy and sell things, it's the inability of the government to devalue it. This isn't as big a problem in many richer countries with relatively stable currencies, but I sure as hell would prefer Bitcoin to anything the Venezuelan government or the Argentinian government would issue. The kinks are…

You hit the nail on the head. Hodling is, in some cases, the best use case for Bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin's Use in Commerce Keeps Falling

#84

Post by WJW »

ehrtt wrote: post #65
pjc50 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... why would you?

..because in this thought experiment it's guaranteed to be deflationary...

It's only deflationary in terms of bitcoins, the dollar value can still drop to zero if demand completely drops away.

Re: Bitcoin's Use in Commerce Keeps Falling

#85

Post by bobthepanda »

socrates1998 wrote: post #70

It sounds weird, but I think a big part of Bitcoin's, and other crypto's value, isn't in the day to day ability to use it to buy and sell things, it's the inability of the government to devalue it. This isn't as big a problem in many richer countries with relatively stable currencies, but I sure as hell would prefer Bitcoin to anything the Venezuelan government or the Argentinian government would issue. The kinks are…

I mean, what advantage does it have over gold?

Advantages of gold vs. Bitcoin:

- gold is pretty easy to find, not that hard to buy for the average consumer; BTC is anything but

- gold is physical in form and securing it is not hard; BTC is not physical, exchanges get hacked with losses to accounts, in the event of a natural disaster or some event where power generation and internet is lost you lose access to BTC. (Someone can come break in and loot your gold, but people could also do that with your BTC wallet credentials, and if people are doing that you have worse things to worry about)

- gold at least has some kind of floor value, since it does have uses other than a currency store; the same is not true for BTC

Re: Bitcoin's Use in Commerce Keeps Falling

#86

Post by salawat »

telaport wrote: post #38
keymone wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By money you mean what exactly? Anything in a bank account is not money but promise of money that can be taken away without your knowledge. Any specific currency is subject to whim of corresponding central bank. Sure, some are safer than others but still. Even the right to participate is not a given as you can be banned from opening a bank account. Bitcoin is orders of magnitude better money than anything else in eve…

It's becoming clear that people who say what you just said sound more like the loons parroting Sovereign Citizen manifestos than rational individuals who actually understand international monetary policies. Instead of screaming about flags with yellow fringes, and "Am I being detained?", you will be screaming about how POW works and "Is BTC illegal?!". Whether you want to believe it or not, enough people are not havi…

His point is the fundamental principles of fractional reserve are flawed, and the system will alwayssuffer from the looming threat of a bank run.

It's rather disingenuous to say that people having money stolen from them isn't a problem when you have a system that cyclically chucks out an Enron or Sub-Prime mortgage crisis every ten years or so that typically ends up getting resolved on the taxpayer's dime.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. If you're going to downvote someone, prove them wrong. Ad hominem let's you nowhere.

Also, you are right on Bitcoin though. It has a higher chance of someone just taking your the ball and going home, something any nationally backed currency has measures in place to prevent.

Re: Bitcoin's Use in Commerce Keeps Falling

#87

Post by guiomie »

bobthepanda wrote: post #85
socrates1998 wrote: post #70

It sounds weird, but I think a big part of Bitcoin's, and other crypto's value, isn't in the day to day ability to use it to buy and sell things, it's the inability of the government to devalue it. This isn't as big a problem in many richer countries with relatively stable currencies, but I sure as hell would prefer Bitcoin to anything the Venezuelan government or the Argentinian government would issue. The kinks are…

I mean, what advantage does it have over gold? Advantages of gold vs. Bitcoin: - gold is pretty easy to find, not that hard to buy for the average consumer; BTC is anything but - gold is physical in form and securing it is not hard; BTC is not physical, exchanges get hacked with losses to accounts, in the event of a natural disaster or some event where power generation and internet is lost you lose access to BTC. (So…

Can't figure out if this is sarcasm...

Re: Bitcoin's Use in Commerce Keeps Falling

#88

Post by mrlala »

chrismorgan wrote: post #29
ttoinou wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. But don't forget credit cards offer others services, such as charge refund and fraud protection

I am only quibbling on the statement about fees, not the rest.

You can't talk about credit card fees without recognizing WHY there are fees and what advantage they have...

Re: Bitcoin's Use in Commerce Keeps Falling

#89

Post by wslh »

wgerard wrote: post #49
wslh wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We had to send a payment to someone who lives in a commonwealth country I use it for that purpose all the time. In general, People in developed countries don't have a clue about how painful and time consuming an international payment can be. Even with credit cards banks put very low limits that are unrealistic for someone who travel often and consume cloud services like AWS or Google Cloud. That is why I think the…

> I use it for that purpose all the time. Not to dig into your business too much, but: Any weird tax/legal implications around that? I didn't want to dig into it too much (just because often these things are rabbit holes with unclear answers), but I'm really curious about it for the next time we have to send a payment. > In general, People in developed countries don't have a clue about how painful and time consuming…

> Not to dig into your business too much, but: Any weird tax/legal implications around that?

You have the typical two options but generally speaking In non-developed countries the concept of taxes or evasion is relative, ethically speaking.

Re: Bitcoin's Use in Commerce Keeps Falling

#90

Post by deevolution »

bobthepanda wrote: post #85
socrates1998 wrote: post #70

It sounds weird, but I think a big part of Bitcoin's, and other crypto's value, isn't in the day to day ability to use it to buy and sell things, it's the inability of the government to devalue it. This isn't as big a problem in many richer countries with relatively stable currencies, but I sure as hell would prefer Bitcoin to anything the Venezuelan government or the Argentinian government would issue. The kinks are…

I mean, what advantage does it have over gold? Advantages of gold vs. Bitcoin: - gold is pretty easy to find, not that hard to buy for the average consumer; BTC is anything but - gold is physical in form and securing it is not hard; BTC is not physical, exchanges get hacked with losses to accounts, in the event of a natural disaster or some event where power generation and internet is lost you lose access to BTC. (So…

Maybe its a generational thing, but i have no clue how i would go about buying/trading gold and i dont think anyone in my friend group does either. Bitcoin is far more accessible.
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