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The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

workmanlayout.org

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Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#81

Post by wruza »

deno wrote: post #61

Sit up straight (fix your posture) and stop gluing your wrists to the desk or wrist “support” and the layout doesn’t matter unless you’re going for typing records. There is no magical layout that can eliminate the tension you’re artificially creating by stretching your fingers into unnatural positions instead of just moving the entire hand. What healthy typing looks like (on a horrible keyboard no less): https://www.…

I can imagine typing a wordy contract with this body and hand position, but not programming. He doesn’t use ctrl/shift much, and when he does, it seems not like a quick thing. He also will bottom out as hell even on non-horrible keyboard. (Mac kbd is far from horrible when compared to other membranes, btw.)

I’m not a homerow-guy even, but try to {foo:(x,y)=>(x[y]+1)} and I bet this method will feel the struggle.

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#82

Post by tjoff »

deno wrote: post #61

Sit up straight (fix your posture) and stop gluing your wrists to the desk or wrist “support” and the layout doesn’t matter unless you’re going for typing records. There is no magical layout that can eliminate the tension you’re artificially creating by stretching your fingers into unnatural positions instead of just moving the entire hand. What healthy typing looks like (on a horrible keyboard no less): https://www.…

It is natural to statically lift your arms like that for hours upon hours?

Where one places the support is important, but I've seen conflicting statements whether lifting your arms would be beneficial.

I have not yet seen the piano video but a piano is much bigger than a keyboard and I see tons of reasons as to why whatever works for one doesn't necessarily have to work for the other.

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#83

Post by eigengrau »

lorenzhs wrote: post #8

This looks interesting but the symbol still look very qwerty-ish. I type on Neo-2 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Neo ), which uses ISO keyboards and primarily targets German, even though the majority of my typing is in English. Its entire third layer is for symbols that are common in programming. Layer 3 is activated via either caps-lock or the key above Right Shift, and has \/{}* ?()-:@ as the home…

German users might also be interested in the AdNW layout (http://www.adnw.de/). They started out with Neo’s excellent and logical arrangement of the non-alphabetical layers, but replaced the alphabetic layers with a layout created by running an optimization algorithm on a text corpus of 50% English and 50% German text (whereas in Neo the key arrangement was created manually, based on intuition). The metrics they used were largely inspired by Dvorak’s research.

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#84

Post by fao_ »

jstanley wrote: post #26
reacweb wrote: post #16

He uses the wrong test. Testing on "The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes" is meaningless for developpers: tests should be performed using real usages like "source code of linux kernel" or "mailing list of linux kernel" to have a better balance between code and text.

Even better, it should be performed using a recorded vim session, rather than a full file. The keystrokes you use while editing are not the same as those that end up in the finished file.

You can (and should) alter the layout for command mode so as not to destroy years of muscle-memory.

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#85

Post by mauvehaus »

chrismorgan wrote: post #69
QasimK wrote: post #5

A keyboard layout for programmers, which allowed the use of special characters on the home row, perhaps by using a mixed corpus of source code rather than just novels, would be interesting to see. Recently, I ordered the Ultimate Hacker’s Keyboard because I think typing is quite important for a programmer, especially if you consider health as the author of this article does. I’m a little bit weary of not using QWERTY…

If you have keyboards with physically different layouts—e.g. one ergonomic, one typical laptop, one swipey touchscreen—and use them all at least occasionally, you’ll be able to develop independent muscle memories for each. Go ahead and learn a different layout on a fancy keyboard, while keeping a stock standard layout (not even remapping Caps Lock to anything!) on a laptop keyboard, and I understand you’ll have littl…

I can confirm that having physically different keyboards makes it much easier to switch back and forth. Many years ago, I worked for a company that had a mess of old Sun hardware in the lab with the old Sun-layout[0] keyboards. After about a week of using them, I was pretty comfortable using them, and had no trouble switching back and forth the the customary layout keyboard at my desk.

One day, I discovered the one Sun machine that had a Sun-manufactured keyboard in the customary layout. I was incapable of functioning because I expected it to be in the Sun layout. I had to switch it for a Sun-layout keyboard so I could get some work done.

As an aside, I decided I prefer the Sun layout, and so I've remapped the 6 or so keys via software on basically every computer I've used since. The only issue is the `~ key, which ends up on [ESC], since I haven't yet found a keyboard that has the [backspace] key split in two.

In practice, this isn't much of an annoyance to me. My wife, however goes nuts any time she needs to use the computer for "just a second" and doesn't log me out. I've since gotten better at switching, and if I have to type something when she's logged in, I usually flip the switch pretty quickly.

[0] https://deskthority.net/wiki/Sun_Type_5#Layout

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#86

Post by joemccall86 »

rezeroed wrote: post #47

We need keyboards with digital keys, not printed, so we can change the layouts at the click of a button.

I recalled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard from years ago. It looks like the successor uses an LCD screen: http://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/popularis/.

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#87

Post by hasperdi »

reacweb wrote: post #16

He uses the wrong test. Testing on "The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes" is meaningless for developpers: tests should be performed using real usages like "source code of linux kernel" or "mailing list of linux kernel" to have a better balance between code and text.

Then try this http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/ to find the best layout for you.

I did the test, my ideal layout is Colemak. So I programmed my keyboard with that layout. It took me a while to learn it.

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#88

Post by scns »

jstanley wrote: post #30
scns wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can not recommend this layout highly enough. Every time i am forced to use qwertz shows me how bad a standard layout is. Qwerty was developed at the times of the first typewriters to prevent jamming by slowing typists down

This is a common but enduring myth. It was designed to separate the levers for common digraphs, to prevent jams. It was not designed to slow the typist down, but to ensure typing at full speed did not cause jams.

You are pedantically correct, the best kind of correct. Or just better at expressing what i meant.

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#89

Post by zafiro17 »

I don't have any RSI issues but I love the idea of alternative/improved keyboards and layouts and have accidentally become kind of an aficionado/collector. I have on permanent rotation and have written reviews of a Kinesis Ergo [0], Truly Ergonomic (TEK) [1], TypeMatrix [2], and Happy Hacker [3] and I'm looking seriously at buying an Ergodox one of these days. I happen to like and dislike each of those keyboards: each has advantages and disadvantages. Same goes for Dvorak (which I use regularly) and Colemak, etc. I'm hard pressed to say which is my favorite, but I like each for different reasons and conclude it would be impossible to combine them into any "perfect," ultimate keyboard.

One thing that almost never comes up in these discussions is the need to change or rotate keyboards. I love the Kinesis but eventually get tired of it, and am happy to move to the TEK, which then starts to bother me until I move to the TypeMatrix, etc. Every keyboard and layout improves some part of typing while exacerbating another. Switching keeps you nimble. I suspect it's like bicycles, of which there are infinite variations. If one bike hurts your wrists and another hurts your legs and another bothers your neck, switch every few rides.

[0] http://therandymon.com/index.php?/archives/167-Typing-in-Sty... [1] http://therandymon.com/index.php?/archives/290-The-Truly-Erg... [2] http://therandymon.com/index.php?/archives/295-The-TypeMatri... [3] http://therandymon.com/index.php?/archives/304-Review-of-the...

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#90

Post by whatshisface »

tjoff wrote: post #78
citation_please wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this brings up that some Vim hotkeys are more positional than mnemonic (J-down, K-up), while others are more mnemonic than positional (I-insert, X-exterminate(?)). Food for thought.

This is why I believe that qwerty is the best layout. All applications have designed all shortcuts to be sensible on it. Any other layout is just going to be a disaster and negate any benefits and more during actual use . You can of course use whatever layout you like and then while ctrl/alt/meta is pressed it switches to qwerty, doesn't save vim users though (or other applications where shortcuts don't need to be pr…

The idea would be to optimize the keyboard around English (which you can't remap,) and then to optimize your editor keybindings around the keyboard (which are easy to remap.)
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