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Six Months at Riot Games

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Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#81

Post by lmm »

talonx wrote: post #36

Just curious - is such toxic culture more common in game-dev companies? Some of us would remember the EA Spouse story [1] - one of the first such public disclosures. Have there been any studies done of the prevalence of such culture across different software dev teams? [1] https://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/274.html

I would expect that to be true of any industry that people are desperate to work in - especially one that hires mainly grads who don't have any experience of what a "normal" workplace should look like.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#82

Post by majewsky »

TomMarius wrote: post #54
EliRivers wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet it could be impeding success, like throwing darts at a board while blindfolded. I'll still hit the board sometimes. So is the blindfold no impediment?

I completely agree. Never wanted to say otherwise, just that it doesn't prevent it. I don't think your metaphor is correct, though. Some people actually thrive in this environment (of course most of the time at the cost of others, but let's put that aside - not that it's not a problem), who thrives while blindfolded?

> Who thrives while blindfolded?

Those people that solve Rubik's Cubes while blindfolded, maybe?

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#83

Post by skrebbel »

almostCEO wrote: post #48

A woman writes a post saying she’s offended by typical male jokes. The majority of employees are male, but they have to instead adapt to the vocal minority that can’t take a dick joke. I understand there are idiots but stories like this encourages me to never hire women, because they’re obviously over-sensitive and will at some point write a “I have been offended and this company is sexist” post and nobody will quest…

I weep for your almostEmployees

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#85

Post by pmyteh »

almostCEO wrote: post #71
zimablue wrote: post #56

Looking at this skeptically, given that as she says she put a target on her own back there's not much concrete here about problems she personally faced. Companies have a culture, it might not be your culture, and it's mental to expect to be able to walk in and attack it in the first six months then everything be sweetness and joy. Joining a gaming company and complaining about female outfits is roughly equivalent to…

I am sorry to see your comment in gray. I was heavily downvoted as well, but I share your views fully. The counter-example of a female-dominated environment is food for thought. At work, I just avoid women altogether and go for lunch with guys so I can say almost anything without offending anyone.

I've worked in female-dominated environments (I used to be a copy-typist). They were fine. No passive-aggressive anti-male comments, no questions about my sex life, no harassment. The conversation topics were about more stereotypically female topics than in other places I've worked, but I was made to feel very welcome.

I'm sure there are toxic women-only work environments (humans are great at making anything toxic) but it is absolutely possible to have a gender imbalance in a workplace without it being obnoxious.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#86

Post by gameswithgo »

time0ut wrote: post #17

I have never played league of legends, but one of the things I've heard repeatedly is that there is an extremely toxic culture around the game. If true, it isn't surprising to see that the company has a toxic culture as well. I feel for the author. It is sad that her dream job turned into a nightmare. I just hope some positive change comes from this at Riot and other companies.

>is that there is an extremely toxic culture around the game.

You hear that about most games that are competitive. Teenagers interested in games where you are trying to pwn everyone, are gonna be crude and awful a lot of the time.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#87

Post by shawn »

TillE wrote: post #57
shawn wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I assure you it’s uncontrollable. There are millions of games played per day on Dota. How do you propose to fairly evaluate each of them?

You seriously can't think of a single idea for how to ban toxic players at scale? Start with crowd-sourcing via reports, then pass it over to customer service once a critical mass has been achieved. Make sure one person can't easily create a new account after being banned. This really isn't a new problem, tons of companies of all sizes have tackled it with varying success.

Spoken like someone who’s never played the game. Get ready to be banned for no fault of your own, just because your three teammates decided to report you for the lulz. There are people who post on /r/dota2 complaining that they get banned from the game for nothing but picking techies each game. They don’t even say anything. People just report them immediately.

By the way, streamers are one of the most high impact users of the game. They are also one of the most unfairly targeted by report systems. This problem is extensively studied and very tricky.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#88

Post by enraged_camel »

PakG1 wrote: post #67
shawn wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I assure you it’s uncontrollable. There are millions of games played per day on Dota. How do you propose to fairly evaluate each of them?

How do YouTube, Facebook, and others ban illegal, unsavory content? Teams of moderators with good tools. Unfortunately, also a thankless job with the potential to give PTSD.

YouTube, Facebook and others have several orders of magnitude more money to throw at the problem than an indie game company.

That’s why Riot’s level of progress over the problem is so remarkable.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#89

Post by jmull »

lsmarigo wrote: post #40

Interesting that this one is doing well compared to the longer in-depth kotaku article a few days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17710188 - fwiw that piece has since been corroborated by a ton of former riot employees on twitter. At the risk of sounding overly cynical, this is all true and everyone knows about it, people feign disgust at these articles but we're all complicit and understanding that this is…

> ...this is all true and everyone knows about it... I'm with you up to here. (Well, not everyone knows about it, but if you're paying attention to the issue at all yod do.)

> ...people feign disgust at these articles... My disgust is not feigned. So would guess many feel genuine disgust because it's disgusting behavior.

> ...but we're all complicit... I don't think so. One has to participate, condone or accept it to be complicit. Are you're making an oblique confession?

> ...and understanding that this is way things are. Absolutely not! There is no reason it needs to be this way, even at a game company.

> ...Nothing will change. Perhaps, perhaps not. It would certainly be a shame if nothing did. Riot may not find it as easy to continue in this vein as they have in the past now that it's been exposed to daylight. Many of their customers certainly don't care if even like it. But many do. Hopefully they will see the light and figure out how to grow up.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#90

Post by pandasun »

Does she have any recordings of those things that were said? Since it happened so often? Because this entire thread, with lots of people being angry at Riot Games, is based on someone's word. Not saying it's not true, but you might want to proceed with some more caution. I've seen a friend's life destroyed (he committed suicide) by things his ex were saying about him. None of which were true (I heard her admit to this). Anyway, if it's true, then they should be ashamed.
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