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The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

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Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#81

Post by topkai22 »

The interesting thing on this thread is that while there is a general agreement libraries are high ROI government institutions and worth preserving, I don’t think anyone has defended the libraries role as a repository of books.

I personally I am glad that these neighborhood book warehouses exist, we personally take our kids to checkout books about monthly. But as an adult? Almost all my check outs are via inter library loan, and even then my county’s selection of books as limited. Need a recent copy of a “home construction costs” estimator? Good luck. Looking for an obscure 70s novel your dad told you about? They threw it away in the 80s.

A “national library” inter library loan system would be AMAZING. I know my college had something like that, but a single loan could cost $35-50. If a Seattle company (because, come on, Amazon isn’t Silicon Valley) could create a system that lowers that price to pennies per loan that disruption it would be a positive thing.

And then we’d be even further along path we are on now-that we need libraries, but do libraries need books?

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#82

Post by cdubzzz »

romaniv wrote: post #59
geebee wrote: post #12

I'm largely in agreement with this Vox piece, but I think there's much more to say in defense of libraries as well. I have a friend who found a red envelope with some money in it in a book that he'd checked out of the library. He figured it belonged to whoever had checked the book out earlier, so he went into the branch and mentioned it. They said that they could find out the last person to read the book, but no more…

This is a very important point. Libraries do more than just lend books. They are institutions that preserve and promote knowledge and have certain values "built in". They also often serve as local community centers of sorts. Having cheap books available in Kindle store does not fully replace functionality of a library.

> They also often serve as local community centers of sorts.

The public libraries in Seattle are an amazing thing. My wife goes to "kids play time" with our ten month old son at a couple of different libraries every week. And we can also bring him in to the kids play area any time and take the kids area books on the honor system. It's a really great way to interact with other kids until we start using day care or he gets to preschool age. And it gives my wife a chance to meet other parents and get a break.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#83

Post by Spooky23 »

JTbane wrote: post #52
ryandrake wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If libraries were invented today, that would be immediately killed by the copyright and retail lobbies.

It's funny to imagine publishers making the case against them- "You're gonna just let people borrow books for free!? How will I turn a profit?" It's also kind of sad that this logic is so prevalent with regards to software, films, music, etc.

A: Libraries buy lots of books.

Children's books would not exist with libraries. You'd probably find that without the library most of the deeper catalog for publishers would not be viable.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#84

Post by toomuchtodo »

robrenaud wrote: post #55
nxc18 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As they exist today: free access to computers and internet. Information is only literally free and instant if you have access to the internet, which isn't gauranteed especially for low income people.

For a librarian's salary, one could subsidize lots of internet for low income people.

Or we could take the intelligent route and use taxes to pay for both.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#85

Post by TimJYoung »

rayiner wrote: post #54
ashelmire wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something ironic about a lawyer and university employee decrying education. Perhaps we should hit you over the head a few times until you forget everything you've ever learned and see how well the rest of your life turns out?

Nothing ironic about it. Lawyers in the U.S. typically need seven years of education (a four-year college degree, and a three-year JD). In the U.K., they manage with a 3 to 4-year LLB. In the U.S., everyone is required to go to high-school through grade 12. In Germany, 40% of people finish at grade 10. Both the U.K. and Germany manage to have world class economies with substantially less education than the U.S. The U…

I agree with you 100%. However, I also think that libraries are one way that you can compensate for a lack of a formal education, and as pointed out here, they often serve as a physical refuge from the world that is important for learning. For example, I think that libraries should stock more textbooks in addition to regular books. Textbooks are, typically, a) very expensive, and b) very hard to track down, especially if they are older.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#87

Post by EliRivers »

BurningFrog wrote: post #26
Sharlin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I read a library-related discussion on HN, one of the sentiments expressed was basically ”I download ebooks, why would anyone need a library?” Boggles the mind. There was also a bizarre comment about libraries being only funded to keep a bunch of otherwise useless civil servants employed.

Let me steelman that argument. Libraries were invented because information was only available on printed (or hand written) books, which were very expensive and scarce resources. Now information can be available almost literally for free and instantly, to anywhere. If the institutional inertia of libraries didn't exist today, would they really be invented as they are? https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man

Now information can be available almost literally for free and instantly

Brilliant. I foolishly bought some books recently. Where can I read them for free instead, apart from the library? Is this going to involve piracy? I'm not sure I'm really into that.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#88

Post by probably_wrong »

chris_mc wrote: post #2

If you think libraries are useless, try going to one a few times and talk to the staff about the services they provide. I'd personally say libraries are one of the government organizations with the best return on investment, because education and information are almost invaluable. I'll fight a war over libraries, no joke.

I visited Vancouver's public library last year. The library offers wifi, internet computers, professional computers exclusively for stuff like Photoshop, recording booths, musical instruments, organizes weekly events and, of course, books.

If all you have is this library and time, you could pick up an instrument, learn how to play it, record a weekly podcast/vlog with your progress, edit the video, upload it to Youtube, and design your own artwork. Don't know how to do one of these things? Go pick up a book on it. You can launch an entire career for almost nothing. I'd like to see Amazon do that.

I bring this specific case because, to me, it's an example of all a public library can be when we consider them a public service rather than a burden.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#89

Post by rexpop »

romaniv wrote: post #59
geebee wrote: post #12

I'm largely in agreement with this Vox piece, but I think there's much more to say in defense of libraries as well. I have a friend who found a red envelope with some money in it in a book that he'd checked out of the library. He figured it belonged to whoever had checked the book out earlier, so he went into the branch and mentioned it. They said that they could find out the last person to read the book, but no more…

This is a very important point. Libraries do more than just lend books. They are institutions that preserve and promote knowledge and have certain values "built in". They also often serve as local community centers of sorts. Having cheap books available in Kindle store does not fully replace functionality of a library.

They serve as community centers 100%. Storytelling nights, after-school clubs, classes, dances, voter registration and voting booths... I am sure I am only grazing the surface of how libraries operate as community centers.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#90

Post by jklinger410 »

maym86 wrote: post #5

I'm sick of people going after things they don't use or understand that are valuable to people of lesser means while spewing the efficiencies of the free market. Amazon only makes as much money as it does because it manages to avoid paying tax while utilizing the infrastructure built and maintained by collecting taxes.

>Amazon only makes as much money as it does because it manages to avoid paying tax while utilizing the infrastructure built and maintained by collecting taxes.

It would still make a lot of money without all of that, though.

Amazon is top of mind when it comes to simplicity when shopping on the internet, period. You can't take that away from them with the torrent of anti-amazon memes you are clearly quoting from.

Our shitty governments have not successfully taxed them, and have been literally giving themselves up to Amazon for the "jobs they create" for the last decade. If you wanted Amazon to turn all of that down so they could make less money you are fucking kidding yourself.

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