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A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

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Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#81

Post by actsasbuffoon »

api wrote: post #27
nickserv wrote: post #9

Do your children a favor and get them a "real" computer with keyboard and mouse, instead of a tablet. I've found it helps with several things. For one, I've seen children accustomed to using touch interfaces blurring the line between physical and virtual, i.e swiping at physical objects like books, photos, even walls. I've not seen this behavior with those used to non touch interfaces. Also, learning to use a keyboar…

Even more important is the nature of PCs vs mobile devices. The mobile platform is designed to commoditize the user and create a stark division between users on one side and content and software creators on the other. You can't easily create anything of any substance on a mobile device and the ecosystem discourages it by e.g. treating user data as unimportant. PCs were designed to be devices for people to create thin…

I strongly disagree. I use my tablet for painting and sketching, composing music, and sometimes a bit of writing. These devices are amazing for content creation.

They’re currently not good at programming, which is a small subset of content creation. This problem plagued personal computers for a long while as well. For example, Apple’s Lisa could only be programmed by attaching it to a second Lisa (which was extremely expensive). Being able to program your computer with itself wasn’t always common.

These are early days still. Tablets will get there some day. It’s a techical problem, and technical problems have techical solutions. Give it time.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#82

Post by ericdykstra »

jdietrich wrote: post #45

It's worth bearing in mind that the source is Japanese. All input methods for the Japanese language are a compromise. Inputting kanji on a physical keyboard is nowhere near as fluid as inputting Latin characters - you're constantly toggling between inputting kana and selecting the kanji options presented by the IME. The prediction and correction technologies of smartphone keyboards are a very good match for kanji and…

I can attest that flick-method typing is fantastic for Japanese. I'm over 100 WPM typing in English, so using standard romaji-phonetic input on a keyboard is still the fastest for me, but flick-typing is bar-none the best option for a touch-screen.

You don't even have to bother with using the modifier button (for the ゛or ゜markers) because the prediction will guess what you meant. It's much easier than even typing my native English as far as phone input goes.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#83

Post by wolfgke »

scarface74 wrote: post #50
api wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more important is the nature of PCs vs mobile devices. The mobile platform is designed to commoditize the user and create a stark division between users on one side and content and software creators on the other. You can't easily create anything of any substance on a mobile device and the ecosystem discourages it by e.g. treating user data as unimportant. PCs were designed to be devices for people to create thin…

PCs were designed to be devices for people to create things. I think you have an idealized view of how most people use PCs. Even during the first era of PCs in the 80s, most kids used them for playing games. By the mid 90s, it was all about games and “multimedia” on CDs. Then Facebook and social media games. The geeks that looked forward to InCider, Nybble, and whatever the offshoot computer mag from 3-2-1 Contact we…

> I think you have an idealized view of how most people use PCs.

I don't think that he has an idealized view per se. It is rather that people who bring up such arguments often are surrounded by similar minded people, which is some kind of echo chamber. So people who bring these arguments actually have observed lots of people using their PC/smartphone. Unluckily this "lots of people" sample is strongly biased towards their echo chamber.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#84

Post by dghughes »

My mother told me she saw a baby using a smartphone. He was swiping, typing, zooming etc.. The mother of the baby said he was 16 months old.

So I can believe in a few years kids will grow up used to smooth phone/tablet type keyboards and not the physical type.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#85

Post by ericdykstra »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #70
jdietrich wrote: post #45

It's worth bearing in mind that the source is Japanese. All input methods for the Japanese language are a compromise. Inputting kanji on a physical keyboard is nowhere near as fluid as inputting Latin characters - you're constantly toggling between inputting kana and selecting the kanji options presented by the IME. The prediction and correction technologies of smartphone keyboards are a very good match for kanji and…

That's fascinating. Is the video representative of texting speed, or is this the fastest human in the world? Are they making choices that would take effort in a different system, or just clicking the next suggested letter?

The video is using simple example sentences where the prediction is always correct, so actual typing means choosing the correct kanji at intervals rather than typing the entire sentence at once, but otherwise it's pretty representative of what a normal person can do.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#86

Post by apozem »

I have never not had access to a desktop PC, but what about people who can't afford one? Say a poor family has $100 to spend on a kid. They're going to get a phone every time. I could definitely see a poor kid only grow up on mobile devices.

Related story: My college roommate studied accounting and one of the first classes they made him take was remedial computing. Here's how Excel works, use alt-tab to switch windows, that kind of thing. I thought the class sounded dumb but maybe it's necessary.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#87

Post by andybak »

21 wrote: post #57
curuinor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A computer is a machine of profound alienation from the actual ability to create and the ability to use, unlike anything someone who survives in the wild or farms would do. Many people will die having used computers for 10 hours a day but not being able to really act with computers and create with computers. This is unacceptable.

> A computer is a machine of profound alienation from the actual ability to create and the ability to use A funny thing to say, given that today a lot of content requires computers to produce, even abstract art. > Many people will die having used computers for 10 hours a day but not being able to really act with computers and create with computers How is that different from people who voraciously read countless books…

I've had similar disagreements with people bemoaning VR for being isolating and non-social compared to other interactive media. Nobody decries reading literature for being somehow morally inferior to watching TV in a group.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#88

Post by foobarian »

eugeniub wrote: post #52
radicaldreamer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt you'll find a 14 year old who swipes at a book... kids very quickly learn context and rules of physics. It's much harder when some screens are touch screens and some are not, however, but I see adults trying to swipe non-touch screens all the time (mall displays, ads, iMacs etc.)

Meanwhile we adults are still occasionally trying to Ctrl-Z real life.

I understood that as suspend. It still works! Who wouldn't want infinite time for video games/hobbies while time was stopped.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#89

Post by vslira »

zenir_ wrote: post #78
jdietrich wrote: post #45

It's worth bearing in mind that the source is Japanese. All input methods for the Japanese language are a compromise. Inputting kanji on a physical keyboard is nowhere near as fluid as inputting Latin characters - you're constantly toggling between inputting kana and selecting the kanji options presented by the IME. The prediction and correction technologies of smartphone keyboards are a very good match for kanji and…

Sounds like finally a good usage for the mac touchbar

My thoughts exactly. Maybe Apple was a couple of steps ahead and added an amazing feature for the ever growing Chinese market. Who knows?
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