Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK • Hacker News Board

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#81

Post by lifeformed » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:29 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #9

What I've wanted for Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and Chelsea Manning, and if Obama would have done it before leaving office, it would have earned him infinite respect: Try them, possibly even find them guilty of something, but also award them with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. What these people have done is probably illegal, but it is unquestionably about the most American, patriotic act you could commit. Sp…

How do you reconcile your view of Assange with these facts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiLeaks#Allegations_of_Russi...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiLeaks#Correspondence_betwe....

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#82

Post by micv » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:29 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #9

What I've wanted for Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and Chelsea Manning, and if Obama would have done it before leaving office, it would have earned him infinite respect: Try them, possibly even find them guilty of something, but also award them with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. What these people have done is probably illegal, but it is unquestionably about the most American, patriotic act you could commit. Sp…

You don't get a medal for being a Russian asset unless you're in Russia.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#83

Post by e40 » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:30 PM UTC

firasd wrote: post #47

blhack wrote: post #9

What I've wanted for Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and Chelsea Manning, and if Obama would have done it before leaving office, it would have earned him infinite respect: Try them, possibly even find them guilty of something, but also award them with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. What these people have done is probably illegal, but it is unquestionably about the most American, patriotic act you could commit. Sp…

It makes me profoundly sad how the world (or at least my world, mostly far left, liberal, educated, etc.) has turned so hard against Julian Assange. He's a hero in every sense of the word. If this Assange guy hadn’t gone all-in on supporting Trump, Russia, & co., he would still have a broad base of support among liberal Americans—many of the same people who lobbied for Chelsea Manning’s release. Epic bad strategy on…

It really shows the non-liberal bias here at HN that the above comment has more down than up votes. Because if you are liberal, there is statement concerning Assange that is more true.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#84

Post by mnm1 » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:30 PM UTC

At this point, I don't even care if the charges against him are true or not. He can go rot in prison. Whatever his fucking agenda is, his actions during the election are indefensible. If the CIA took him to a black site and he was never heard from again, it's be too soon still and no one would miss him. Due process really isn't necessary when you know someone is guilty but the appearance of such must be upheld even for tyrants let alone for scum like Julian.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#85

Post by dnautics » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:30 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #36

kev009 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a contrasting comment I am curious if you remember how you consumed information back then to i.e. develop admiration for the whistleblowers, and retain the political operative narrative that Obama was somehow sympathetic and good to these causes.

Obama was not sympathetic to these causes. That's why it would have gained him so much respect from me. I posted the quote in another reply, so sorry for repeating it, but: "I disagree with what you are saying, but will defend to the death your right to say it." This value is probably the most important to me, and it is something that I think is fundamentally American. I would have loved to see Obama exhibit it.

Can you give an example in Obama's political tenure when he had ever done anything consistent with that sentiment or that strategy?

Politically, Obama's heroes are the progressives of the Wilsonian and Roosevelt era. Wilson jailed Eugene Debs for sedition, and ironically it took the era's conservative firebrand (H L Mencken) rabble-rousing about it in exactly that spirit and eventually Harding (not exactly a socialist) commuted Debs' sentence.

For that matter: Can you think of an example when any politician or political figure in power in the US in recent memory has done something like that? I'm not comprehensively knowledgeable about US politics, but the only one I can think of is Clarence Thomas voting against the majority in Texas V Lawrence, where he said he was opposed to laws forbidding gay sex, but he didn't think the supreme court should rule on it, and he would vote to strike down the law if he were in the Texas State Legislature.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#86

Post by nailer » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:31 PM UTC

mkempe wrote: post #5

cft wrote: post #2

Lenin was an appropriate name for this man.

Why? "Lenin Moreno was once a wealthy businessman and politician. But in 1998, he was shot in the back as gunmen stole his car from a parking lot in Quito. He was paralyzed from the waist down. Moreno overcame intense pain and bouts of depression to become a motivational speaker. He's written books about the healing power of laughter." This seems to explain a lot of what he has been doing in Ecuador, more so than his…

Probably because he's willing to back Spain about being called out for abuses surrounding Catalonia, as mentioned in the article?

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#87

Post by stefan_ » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:31 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #3

This is less a news story than a coat rack Greenwald uses to hang a bunch of loosely-related political arguments he wants to make: * That Ecuador under Moreno is subservient to western powers, this according in part to Correa, who ran the previous Ecuadorian administration, which was widely considered one of the most corrupt in the western hemisphere (I have no idea if Moreno's was as well). OK? None of us are equipp…

I'm sorry to say, but Democrats really lost the election. Greenwald must be falling over from laughter in Brazil at the reception he gets based on purely partisan ignorance.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#88

Post by lumberjack » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:33 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #31

blhack wrote: post #9

What I've wanted for Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and Chelsea Manning, and if Obama would have done it before leaving office, it would have earned him infinite respect: Try them, possibly even find them guilty of something, but also award them with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. What these people have done is probably illegal, but it is unquestionably about the most American, patriotic act you could commit. Sp…

Just a curiousity, is “far left” and “liberal” even related? Seems like the far left and far right are two sides to the same totalitarian coin. Liberal implies a respect for the freedom of individuals while “far left” puts the collective over the rights of the individual. The word liberal has lost its meaning. The far left (and far right) is incompatible with freedom. Cases in point: Venezuela, Cuba, the Soviet Union…

Traditionally there are three political groups: conservatives, liberals and socialists.

"Far-left" falls under socialism, along with anarchism and communism. The idea that ties them together is this concept of trying to fight against and eliminate some hierarchy in society. Often times, wealth inequality. There is no such thing in the US.

To say that you are a liberal far-left is indeed a misuse of terminology.

Fascism falls under conservatism along with monarchism and any other traditionalist or reactionary political ideology. Standing opposed to "the left", the chief idea that ties all these ideologies together is that some hierarchal structures are beneficial to society.

Interesting to note that Republicanism is a liberal ideology, not a conservative one. Liberalism is a much more well defined ideology than the other two. Briefly speaking: "all men are created equal" (hence Republicanism), small government and free markets and capitalism.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#89

Post by slg » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:34 PM UTC

I am genuinely surprised by the amount of positive comments here about Assange. It is clear that at a bare minimum he was used as a tool by Putin to sway politics in the US and is it seems likely he was a willing and active participant in that plan. For people who still view Assange positively, do you simply not care about that fact or do you just think the good outweighs the bad?

EDIT: This comment is currently sitting at -3 points. I couldn't care less about the points, but it shows that at least four people have found problems with this question. Is it too much to ask that you engage in a conversation if you think this question is ridiculous?

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#90

Post by tptacek » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:35 PM UTC

stefan_ wrote: post #87

tptacek wrote: post #3

This is less a news story than a coat rack Greenwald uses to hang a bunch of loosely-related political arguments he wants to make: * That Ecuador under Moreno is subservient to western powers, this according in part to Correa, who ran the previous Ecuadorian administration, which was widely considered one of the most corrupt in the western hemisphere (I have no idea if Moreno's was as well). OK? None of us are equipp…

I'm sorry to say, but Democrats really lost the election. Greenwald must be falling over from laughter in Brazil at the reception he gets based on purely partisan ignorance.

I don't know who you're responding to, but it isn't me.