And yet there doesn't seem to be much concern that only 4% of Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations workers are female or only 25% of Healthcare practitioners and technical occupations workders are men.
Facebook’s diversity efforts show little progress after five years
81–90 of 112 posts
Re: Facebook’s diversity efforts show little progress after five years
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
>What does this have to do with software development? Everything. If people aren't applying to the jobs, they can't be hired. Then of course even if the minority/gender a company is lacking on applies for a job, if they aren't the most qualified candidate a company shouldn't be expected to hire them. >Are you actually suggesting women have some physical attribute that makes them less applicable for programming, mathe…
Okay, I understand the 'reality' that you don't want to listen to the experience of a woman who has been programming since she was 9, with a background in computer engineering and an MSc in computer science from a top engineering college that was all male until the 1970s, and 12% female at the time of graduation, a TA and graduate researcher, as well as being singularly awarded 'most outstanding student in computer s…
>Okay, I understand the 'reality' that you don't want to listen to the experience of a woman who has been programming since she was 9,
I am not in CS, I do not know what companies look for in CS. I however do not have a college degree and this week alone have been rejected for 3 jobs I applied to, despite having 12 years of experience doing 1, because "there is a minimum requirement of a Bachelor's".
In my experience, outside of early-stage startups, companies want a degree not hobbyist experience. In the case of the job in my field where I have more years of experience than the company has in existence, they wanted a degree over experience.
"Ryan! I wanted to extend a virtual wave and thank you for your interest in joining our team. You obviously have many of the skills we're looking for. However, for the Customs Brokerage role we require a BA/BS degree as well as previous experience". I literally have over 12 years of experience doing the exact job, at a company that is 105 years old vs the company that is 5 years old, and I was rejected before even getting an interview because I lacked a 4-year degree (in any field).
Re: Facebook’s diversity efforts show little progress after five years
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Okay, I understand the 'reality' that you don't want to listen to the experience of a woman who has been programming since she was 9, with a background in computer engineering and an MSc in computer science from a top engineering college that was all male until the 1970s, and 12% female at the time of graduation, a TA and graduate researcher, as well as being singularly awarded 'most outstanding student in computer s…
>Okay, I understand the 'reality' that you don't want to listen to the experience of a woman who has been programming since she was 9, I am not in CS, I do not know what companies look for in CS. I however do not have a college degree and this week alone have been rejected for 3 jobs I applied to, despite having 12 years of experience doing 1, because "there is a minimum requirement of a Bachelor's". In my experience…
We all have our struggles. There's no need to put out information that oversimplifies the problem women have in technology and reduces it down to an analogy that retains biased sentiment.
I personally don't think I'd do well walking into an interview for a startup, even though that's something I might have wanted to do when I was younger. We all have regrets and struggles we live with and have to work with, no matter how many pieces of paper are attached to us.
Re: Facebook’s diversity efforts show little progress after five years
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Having problems fixing poverty? Really it's the fact that no good jobs will hire us. There are only 3 things you need to do in order to not be permanently poor in the US - 1. Graduate High School 2. Don't have kids before you're married 3. Get a job, it doesn't have to be a "good" job. Specifically with black America, it is very obvious that the vast amount of fatherless children is a huge problem. Single motherhood…
The Success Sequence is bunk, here's some reading on it[1] but the basic idea is that in those three points you laid out number 3 does basically all the explanatory work, number one does a little work and number 2 does almost nothing. >This is a problem of culture and a lack of personal responsibility. Okay then where does that culture problem come from? Does it just emerge from the ether to grab black people and wip…
So the conclusion here is that failing to graduate high school and becoming a teen parent has little impact on life outcomes? I'm sure Bruenig is right when when he says that the ability to stay out of poverty is mostly determined by the ability to hold a job. But thats basically a tautology.
Did AEI shoe-horn in their pet theories into the analysis? Sure. On the other hand, does Bruenig (or anyone) believe that holding a job is casually independent from the sets of behavioral traits that lead people into failing high school and becoming teen parents?
> that culture emerges from the same society you're desperate to exonerate
Accusations of motivated reasoning cut both ways. He could say that you seem just as desperate to implicate society as he is to exonerate it.
Re: Facebook’s diversity efforts show little progress after five years
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
I see this a lot and I just don't understand it. Everyone in this problem seems desperate to point the finger to someone else. And it's not just sex, it's race too. Having problems hiring black tech workers? It's the college's fault. Having problems graduating black students with BSs in STEM? It's the high school's fault. Having problems graduating black students from high school? Really it's the fault of the communi…
Presuming your pipeline is accurate (dubious, but I'll presume), what "do something about it" is there to be done by the top two steps? It's a disservice to everyone if you hire workers who are unqualified over qualified ones. It a disservice to students to admit them if they are not ready to compete. Being successful either as a person or a corporation is hard, and there's no real way to handicap it and expect the h…
Whoa whoa whoa back up.
>the most assisted demographic in America has been black
source?
>and they've shown little to no progress
source?
>whereas Asians have been the most prejudiced against
source?
>and they've shown the most
source?
And that doesn't even begin to address the issue of comparing Asians, who had the resources to immigrate here, with black Americans, who were brought here as slaves and had restricted civil rights until 1964.
Re: Facebook’s diversity efforts show little progress after five years
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Okay, I understand the 'reality' that you don't want to listen to the experience of a woman who has been programming since she was 9, I am not in CS, I do not know what companies look for in CS. I however do not have a college degree and this week alone have been rejected for 3 jobs I applied to, despite having 12 years of experience doing 1, because "there is a minimum requirement of a Bachelor's". In my experience…
We all have our struggles. There's no need to put out information that oversimplifies the problem women have in technology and reduces it down to an analogy that retains biased sentiment. I personally don't think I'd do well walking into an interview for a startup, even though that's something I might have wanted to do when I was younger. We all have regrets and struggles we live with and have to work with, no matter…
>There's no need to put out information that oversimplifies the problem women have in technology and reduces it down to an analogy
There's literally less qualified women than there are men. Fact. Period. End of story.
That means fewer applicants.
That means fewer hires.
Should Facebook go hire unqualified people then spend considerable amounts of times training them like some military occupational training where you're i class all day every day getting paid for 3-18 months while you learn what is necessary to do the job?
They could do that, you'd have to sign a contract though guaranteeing so many years of service or repay the money if you self-terminate.
When 20% of the people pursing the degrees are women, you can't expect 50% of the new-hires to be female.
Re: Facebook’s diversity efforts show little progress after five years
#87Re: Facebook’s diversity efforts show little progress after five years
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed, genuine diversity of intellectual approach is the gold standard IMHO.
It seems like a completely unattainable standard to me. Can you give me an example of a situation in which "genuine diversity of intellectual approach" has been a net positive for an organization, rather than a divisive detriment to morale? IMO if your organization has a "genuine diversity of intellectual approach" that is truly genuine, then you will soon no longer have an organization — you will have two different…
Your response seems to be suggesting that having two different approaches precludes the possibility of two people listening to each other and reaching a sensible agreement?
Re: Facebook’s diversity efforts show little progress after five years
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
We all have our struggles. There's no need to put out information that oversimplifies the problem women have in technology and reduces it down to an analogy that retains biased sentiment. I personally don't think I'd do well walking into an interview for a startup, even though that's something I might have wanted to do when I was younger. We all have regrets and struggles we live with and have to work with, no matter…
>There's no need to put out information that oversimplifies the problem women have in technology and reduces it down to an analogy There's literally less qualified women than there are men. Fact. Period. End of story. That means fewer applicants. That means fewer hires. Should Facebook go hire unqualified people then spend considerable amounts of times training them like some military occupational training where you'…
You are throwing out figures you don't have access to.
The article's figures come in the form of a metric of change, a delta value indicating the passage of time. That is the foundation to reason and measure with. That is where there is complaint and room for improvement because that measurement is a useful measurement to the whole system as a dynamic system.
Re: Facebook’s diversity efforts show little progress after five years
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems like a completely unattainable standard to me. Can you give me an example of a situation in which "genuine diversity of intellectual approach" has been a net positive for an organization, rather than a divisive detriment to morale? IMO if your organization has a "genuine diversity of intellectual approach" that is truly genuine, then you will soon no longer have an organization — you will have two different…
Your response seems to be suggesting that having two different approaches precludes the possibility of two people listening to each other and reaching a sensible agreement?
I do not suggest that, because obviously people can listen to each other and reach sensible agreements. But if that's possible then how "genuine" is their intellectual difference in the first place?
My question is this: what defines an organization other than a shared intellectual approach? Borders? Dare I say... Walls?
I'm just saying that a "shared intellectual approach" is literally the definition of an organization to me, unless you're gonna say that walls/borders/exclusion are what defines an organization. So it makes no sense to insist on NOT sharing an intellectual approach because in that instance you'd quickly have two separate organizations.
What I'm really asking for tho is a single example of "genuine intellectual diversity" being beneficial as opposed to merely being divisive and demoralizing. Can you provide an example?