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The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

gizmodo.com

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Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#81

Post by reaperducer »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #50
lisper wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one can't help but suspect that sheer tradition is a somewhat significant factor Only if you didn't read the article. "There's a city-specific reason why San Francisco has stuck with wood rather than swap over to metals, and the answer lies in looking up. The high-voltage cables and wires that guide the city's (oft-maligned) public transport system Muni, and trolley cars crisscross above nearly every street, mean t…

And only if you're also about 40 years behind ladder tech - notice the stepladders in the "A view of the main repair facility" photo? They're nonconductive fiberglass. They're stronger than wood, lighter than wood, don't need to be oiled/varnished, don't require cutting down old-growth trees, and aren't susceptible to moisture damage. You can buy them exhaustively tested, mass produced, in whatever quantities you req…

>They're nonconductive fiberglass

They're also not being used right next to flames.

Yes, fiberglass can be made that won't buckle under both weight and heat, but not at the same price point as wood.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#82

Post by reaperducer »

maxerickson wrote: post #45
lisper wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one can't help but suspect that sheer tradition is a somewhat significant factor Only if you didn't read the article. "There's a city-specific reason why San Francisco has stuck with wood rather than swap over to metals, and the answer lies in looking up. The high-voltage cables and wires that guide the city's (oft-maligned) public transport system Muni, and trolley cars crisscross above nearly every street, mean t…

What kind of ladders do the power line companies use?

What kind of ladders to the power line companies use?

Doesn't matter. The electric company isn't hanging on the outside of a building that's on fire.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#83

Post by toomuchtodo »

pastor_elm wrote: post #80
reaperducer wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most firefighters in the US are volunteer, so not enough pride to pay people to do it. Having a volunteer fire department does not mean there isn't pride. In fact, it can be argued the opposite -- Volunteer departments mean the citizens take enough pride in their brigade that they get directly involved in it, rather than farming it out as a civil service.

I think there is a big difference between the pride of individual being a firefighter (many people feel this and are willing to take the job with no pay or benefits even though firefighters are at risk for a whole range of occupational induced diseases) and the pride a community feels for an organization and their willingness to support them.

Some communities simply can’t afford to pay a fire brigade, hence a volunteer squad where everyone chips in.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#84

Post by reaperducer »

jdietrich wrote: post #58
Retric wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fiberglass is a terrible choice for these ladders. Most places use Aluminum or steel but that has conductivity issues with the amount of overhead powerlines in SF. They can be coated to reduce conductivity but that has other issues. http://lacountyfirefighters.org/items/Ground_Ladders_by_John... 3. May chip and crack with impact forces. 4. May suddenly crack and fail when overloaded. 5. Can burn when exposed to flame…

Several manufacturers offer NFPA 1931 compliant fiberglass fire ladders. When used with a suitable resin, fiberglass has significantly better resistance to heat and flame. Fiberglass and wood are both prone to sudden failure due to crack propagation, but in both cases that risk is mitigated by regular inspection.

When used with a suitable resin, fiberglass has significantly better resistance to heat and flame.

And how's the price compared with wood?

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#85

Post by [deleted] »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #50
lisper wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one can't help but suspect that sheer tradition is a somewhat significant factor Only if you didn't read the article. "There's a city-specific reason why San Francisco has stuck with wood rather than swap over to metals, and the answer lies in looking up. The high-voltage cables and wires that guide the city's (oft-maligned) public transport system Muni, and trolley cars crisscross above nearly every street, mean t…

And only if you're also about 40 years behind ladder tech - notice the stepladders in the "A view of the main repair facility" photo? They're nonconductive fiberglass. They're stronger than wood, lighter than wood, don't need to be oiled/varnished, don't require cutting down old-growth trees, and aren't susceptible to moisture damage. You can buy them exhaustively tested, mass produced, in whatever quantities you req…

[deleted]

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#86

Post by BanazirGalbasi »

jack_quack wrote: post #73

This is super cool but I'm positive this is also super wasteful

You should try reading the article. They specifically state that they re-use components whenever possible, and they regularly service their ladders to keep them in good condition. Aluminum ladders only have a 7-8 year lifespan vs some of the ladders they use going on 60 years before being taken out of commission.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#87

Post by xeromal »

mindcrime wrote: post #8

There's an old saying among firefighters: "The fire service is 200+ years of tradition, unimpeded by progress". Now obviously that isn't strictly true, and SF does have some good reasons for sticking with their wooden ladders... but one can't help but suspect that sheer tradition is a somewhat significant factor. Of course some departments adopt change faster than others, and some kinds of change are adopted more rea…

I'm not sure why, but I'm reminded of that scene in Gangs of New York where two fire brigades show up to a house fire and proceed to duke it out over who has rights to put it out and plunder the building. The building ends up burning down.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#88

Post by 52-6F-62 »

ra1n85 wrote: post #41
xienze wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fiberglass, probably. Which is what SF should be doing.

Most ladders are fiber glass - which makes me wonder why any off the shelf ladder wouldn't suffice.

The film industry uses almost exclusively fiberglass as well. There's no shortage. They're swimming in those things. I would bet their lifespan is shorter than the wooden ladders, however. At least from what I've seen.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#89

Post by qiqing »

Favorite excerpt:

"We had one ladder here that was fully involved in a fire for 25 minutes, and the whole tip of it—six feet—was crispy. It looked like a log you pull out of a campfire," Braun says. "That can't go back in service but we were curious, so we put a new halyard [rope used to hoist ladders] on it for a load test. Even in that condition, it passed."

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#90

Post by garmaine »

mkhalil wrote: post #67
Retric wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They could buy wooden ladders Can you point me to someplace selling 50' wooden ladders appropriate for firefighting?

For the right money, you can find the right ladder. It's not going to be cheap though, because you have to age the wood. I wonder if there is a way to age the wood to SF humidity/climate faster than real time. Just feels like there has to be.

Pressure? But it’s going to be mighty expensive to build a pressure chamber that big.
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