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Do Londoners dream of electric buses?

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Re: Do Londoners dream of electric buses?

#81

Post by tim333 »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #10
nothrabannosir wrote: post #8

> Londoners might not dream of electric buses, … Every single cyclist dreams of electric busses, believe you me. Huffing nitrogen stationary-bus-fart oxides turns any public road here straight into an express lane to lung cancer, without even the courtesy of a nicotine rush. I laugh when people say cycling is healthy. Not in London. Nooo sir. Between the long term certainty of whatever smokers like to aim for, and th…

Is there any research to back up your claim? What are the chances of getting cancer from this? Is there even a direct link? Is it better in aggregate to be an unfit bus rider or a fit cyclist?

From a personal sample of one, I cycled 4 months on routes used by busses and developed a smokers cough - I've never smoked. I'd be surprised if that wasn't a lung cancer risk. I stopped after that. The worst fumes were from diesel busses though this was a few years back and they have probably fitted less polluting ones now.

Re: Do Londoners dream of electric buses?

#82

Post by tim333 »

fifnir wrote: post #24
jeffwass wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a London pedestrian I am fully in favour of electric buses. The NoX fumes are horrible for pedestrians too. Especially when the buses are stacked one after another, idling. I seriously can’t believe the government refuses to act on the diesel disaster. Tens of thousands of people die from diesel exhaust complications per year, but they don’t care.

did anyone vote for more taxes on themselves to cover the cost?

I effectively voted for the Ultra Low Emission Zone although it will increase my taxes. At least I wrote go for it in the residents survey.

As the article suggests the cash cost of the electric busses may be zero with a longer deprecation period.

Against that "pollutants linked to one in 12 deaths in parts of London." Which would you choose? https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families...

Re: Do Londoners dream of electric buses?

#83

Post by Reason077 »

kaybe wrote: post #64
Reason077 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most smart people driving in London are going to leave their car's climate control on the "recirculate" setting whenever possible. That gives you a more-or-less closed environment, running cabin air back through the car's filters rather than sucking in dirty air from the street. But cyclists and pedestrians have no such luxury - they're breathing in the filth whenever they're on, or near, a busy road.

If you only have a paper filter that won't help at all.

By using the "recirculate" setting you avoid bringing in polluted air from outside the car in the first place, so it certainly does help. Just return to fresh air when away from busy roads and polluted areas.

And paper filters do, of course, remove dust and particulates, which are part of the problem. Just not things like NOx and volatile organics. And depending on the filter, it may not be effective against really small (eg PM2.5) particles.

Re: Do Londoners dream of electric buses?

#84

Post by tim333 »

chris_va wrote: post #65

A key difference is that diesel can “recharge” a bus in a matter of minutes, so buses simply queue up at a pump and then drive off. With electric, it takes a few hours overnight, so they had to install a long line of charging points right down the middle of the garage. ... Anyone here know why swappable batteries haven't taken off for fleets?

I get the impression it's been complicated to swap the batteries and have the fleet on compatible batteries.

Ashok Leyland of India are launching one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of3Au0fIMjQ

Re: Do Londoners dream of electric buses?

#85

Post by ben_w »

growlist wrote: post #79
ben_w wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that’s why I never bought a place in Merthyr Tydfil despite being famously affordable, and also why I moved out of Aberystwyth when I graduated despite it looking pretty and being a good place for really long quiet countryside walks. High unemployment in an area sucks even when you personally have a job. Given nothing will stop Brexit, I wish I could say I thought Westminster cared enough to provide replacements…

I was talking about Spain. Opportunities for young people are not good there atm - worse than the UK.

I know you were. I’m saying that conditions in the UK are about to get a lot worse because the impoverished areas are about to lose support that Westminster doesn’t appear to understand that it needs to replace post-Brexit — support which would still be necessary even if Brexit had literally zero economic effects, which, given their track record of overconfidence since Austerity began, would be a surprisingly good outcome.

Re: Do Londoners dream of electric buses?

#86

Post by IshKebab »

SaltyBackendGuy wrote: post #31
jeffwass wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a London pedestrian I am fully in favour of electric buses. The NoX fumes are horrible for pedestrians too. Especially when the buses are stacked one after another, idling. I seriously can’t believe the government refuses to act on the diesel disaster. Tens of thousands of people die from diesel exhaust complications per year, but they don’t care.

This reminds me of 'dieselgate'[0], it's not just buses. One does wonder why the government hasen't acted on a diesel ban (or some action) when it's clearly a risk to the public. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal

I'm pretty sure that's what he was talking about.

Re: Do Londoners dream of electric buses?

#87

Post by growlist »

ben_w wrote: post #85
growlist wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking about Spain. Opportunities for young people are not good there atm - worse than the UK.

I know you were. I’m saying that conditions in the UK are about to get a lot worse because the impoverished areas are about to lose support that Westminster doesn’t appear to understand that it needs to replace post-Brexit — support which would still be necessary even if Brexit had literally zero economic effects, which, given their track record of overconfidence since Austerity began, would be a surprisingly good ou…

Come on though, this supposed austerity is nothing of the sort, with lavish benefits still in place and an unsustainable level of public spending, never mind the gargantuan debt - and we don't even have a proper low tax alternative political party anymore now that the Tories have decided to keep the spending taps turned on full. And no one really knows what's going to happen post Brexit. We could become the successful low-tax Singapore style trading hub that so terrifies Europe. I can speculate also.

Re: Do Londoners dream of electric buses?

#88

Post by DanBC »

growlist wrote: post #87
ben_w wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you were. I’m saying that conditions in the UK are about to get a lot worse because the impoverished areas are about to lose support that Westminster doesn’t appear to understand that it needs to replace post-Brexit — support which would still be necessary even if Brexit had literally zero economic effects, which, given their track record of overconfidence since Austerity began, would be a surprisingly good ou…

Come on though, this supposed austerity is nothing of the sort, with lavish benefits still in place and an unsustainable level of public spending, never mind the gargantuan debt - and we don't even have a proper low tax alternative political party anymore now that the Tories have decided to keep the spending taps turned on full. And no one really knows what's going to happen post Brexit. We could become the successfu…

> with lavish benefits still in place

Without looking it up what's the current rate of universal credit? What's the current benefit cap level?

Re: Do Londoners dream of electric buses?

#89

Post by ben_w »

growlist wrote: post #87
ben_w wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you were. I’m saying that conditions in the UK are about to get a lot worse because the impoverished areas are about to lose support that Westminster doesn’t appear to understand that it needs to replace post-Brexit — support which would still be necessary even if Brexit had literally zero economic effects, which, given their track record of overconfidence since Austerity began, would be a surprisingly good ou…

Come on though, this supposed austerity is nothing of the sort, with lavish benefits still in place and an unsustainable level of public spending, never mind the gargantuan debt - and we don't even have a proper low tax alternative political party anymore now that the Tories have decided to keep the spending taps turned on full. And no one really knows what's going to happen post Brexit. We could become the successfu…

> We could become the successful low-tax Singapore style trading hub that so terrifies Europe. I can speculate also.

The UK’s main problem isn’t any particular UK goal, it’s the total lack of anyone competent in charge and, separately, the lack of anyone powerful/charismatic enough to pick only one of the, I count six, main mutually-incompatible post-Brexit targets (each of which comes in left and right wing variations) and say “this one and none of the others”.

Right now, becoming like Singapore wouldn’t have enough support from Brexiteers, never mind Westminster. Unfortunately, the same is true for 100% of the negotiating positions thus far named, and nobody (seems to have) thought about afterwards at all.

Re: Do Londoners dream of electric buses?

#90

Post by cylinder »

detritus wrote: post #68

A peripheral benefit of electrified buses would be regenerative braking. I've lost count of the amount of times that grubby, dusty brake pads have led to screeching that makes me feel like my ears are about to bleed, when buses have come to a standstill beside me. I once even wrote to TFL about the problem, weird little man that I am. Never received a response.

This drove me insane with poorly maintained NYC taxis and buses too.
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