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150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

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Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#81

Post by ajross »

coldtea wrote: post #62
ajross wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile anyone who espouses common sense ideas such as reforming our immigration policy gets called a racist and ‘anti-immigrant’. First: total strawman. Second: not even relevant to the issue at hand. There is, to first approximation, exactly zero undocumented immigration among "Indian immigrants with advanced degrees" so I'm having a very, very hard time imaging how this is an "enormous penalty" we have to pay…

You kind of already made the parent's point for them. You didn't call it out explicitly, but you're already implying they are racist. > Second: not even relevant to the issue at hand. There is, to first approximation, exactly zero undocumented immigration among "Indian immigrants with advanced degrees" so I'm having a very, very hard time imaging how this is an "enormous penalty" we have to pay for failing to solve t…

> The "issue at hand" the parent discussed is immigration in general

No. djrogers above literally said that "This is one of the enormous penalties we as a nation have to pay because neither of our political parties actually wants to solve the illegal immigration issue." So unless you want to play games with finding an alternative antecedent for "this", you are going to have to retract that.

What the grandparent poster was doing, and you, is trying to inject a fundamentally unsound and offensive position into the debate by not saying it and instead creating a giant strawman around the issue to preemptively accuse the rest of us of intolerance.

So out with it: what's your common sense fix to this that we're refusing to discuss?

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#82

Post by ng12 »

mavelikara wrote: post #74
ng12 wrote: post #63

Isn't it a false assumption that immigrant workers should eventually get Green Cards? The whole point of the H1B system is to temporarily fill shortages of skilled workers, not to be a path for permanent immigration.

The point of H-1B is to both fill a skilled job temporarily, and as a path to permanent immigration. This is called _dual intent_ technically.

From the DOL:

> The intent of the H-1B provisions is to help employers who cannot otherwise obtain needed business skills and abilities from the U.S. workforce by authorizing the temporary employment of qualified individuals who are not otherwise authorized to work in the United States.

The focus seems to be on the temporary nature.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#83

Post by beojan »

toweringgoat wrote: post #44
sus_007 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am thinking about coming aboard this particular boat i.e come to the USA. What would you do if you were me ?

Canada, Europe, Australia, NZ. There are places with Bay Area style salaries, there are other places with lower salaries - either way, you'll be living a comfortable life since costs will be lower than Bay Area. You'll universally find a much better healthcare system (e.g. health insurance not tied to your employer), with the exception of the UK. You'll find a humane immigration system that doesn't kick you out if yo…

> You'll universally find a much better healthcare system (e.g. health insurance not tied to your employer), with the exception of the UK.

The NHS has something of a funding crisis right now, since our government seems to secretly want to privatize it, but it's still better than losing your health insurance if you lose your job.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#84

Post by mavelikara »

ng12 wrote: post #82
mavelikara wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of H-1B is to both fill a skilled job temporarily, and as a path to permanent immigration. This is called _dual intent_ technically.

From the DOL: > The intent of the H-1B provisions is to help employers who cannot otherwise obtain needed business skills and abilities from the U.S. workforce by authorizing the temporary employment of qualified individuals who are not otherwise authorized to work in the United States. The focus seems to be on the temporary nature.

> The focus seems to be on the temporary nature.

For the DOL, yes. For you too, maybe. But for the individual involved, probably both intents are in equal importance, and that is perfectly legal and moral.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#85

Post by UncleEntity »

rohit2412 wrote: post #79
UncleEntity wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it does sound fair to me -- or at least as fair as it can get. Individually it may suck if you come from a country with a large population like China or India but overall it gives people from all over the globe the chance to emigrate without having to directly compete with the large numbers of visa seekers from these countries. I honestly can't think of a more egalitarian immigration policy.

So, say I break India into North India and South India as different countries, that doubles the visa the people there receive. What changed? How about Breaking India down into a hundred different countries? Did we increase the visas a hundred times? EU is a unified political and economic entity, with individual states having well defined freedom. Just like a federation. India is like that, so is USA. So, does EU also…

> ...unless you really think that a person born in Tuvalu should have 130,000 times higher chance of a green card than a person born in India.

I personally think people (and capital) should be able freely move anywhere they want without having to worry about some arbitrary lines on a map but that's not the point, the point is no matter how you look at it someone is going to be "discriminated" against so a person from Tuvalu is either going to have a higher or lower chance than a person from India depending on whatever selection criteria you use.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#86

Post by cfadvan »

rohit2412 wrote: post #80
cfadvan wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is to give people from all over the world an equal shot, not to just skew in favor of one or two high population demographics. You can call that discrimination if you like, but in the “discriminating tastes” sense not the KKK sense. The alternative is to discriminate (in the negative sense) against people who don’t come from a population in the billions.

You didn't give everyone an equal shot. For some reason, you think a billion Indians deserve the same opportunity as 10,000 Tuvalu residents.

I’m Irish and live in Dublin, so there is no “me” in this scenario. I’m just stating how the system works, which as far as I know would easily absorb everyone from Tuvalu, because yes, there aren’t many of them. It’s not Tuvalu’s fault that they can’t exceed the limit on their own, it’s just life.

In addition to the numerical limits placed upon the various immigration preferences, the INA also places a limit on how many immigrants can come to the United States from any one country. Currently, no group of permanent immigrants (family-based and employment-based) from a single country can exceed seven percent of the total amount of people immigrating to the United States in a single fiscal year. This is not a quota to ensure that certain nationalities make up seven percent of immigrants, but rather a limit that is set to prevent any immigrant group from dominating immigration patterns to the United States.

That seems reasonable. You’re not being targeted, Tuvalu isn’t being advantaged, it’s just that there are a lot of Indian people. What’s the alternative? No one gets a chance until every Indian who wants in gets in? Remove all limits? How would that be more fair? You’d just shift one country’s overpopulation to another. If a billion people from various parts of Africa and Asia suddenly were able (and did) immigrate to the US, what would be the result? My guess is economic collapse and social upheaval, followed by people immigrating to the next “best” country with the same results, and so on and so on.

It seems to me you think that the highest population should entitle people to more opportunities. That’s better for the individual, because they get more chances, but it’s at the direct expense of lower populations. That’s not about fairness or being against discrimination, it’s just wanting what you want and fuck anyone else.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#87

Post by mavelikara »

abc_lisper wrote: post #78
throwaway12122 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time the topic of H1B comes up, people bring up Infosys. Why is that? Why is nobody talking about the 100 thousand Indian students who come to US every year? Who is employing them? These students are one of the primary abusers of the H1B system. They go through lengths to stay in US. They will settle for low salary so that they don't have to leave the country. Literally every scam I saw in H1B is from body shop…

> Every time the topic of H1B comes up, people bring up Infosys. Why is that? They must be partial to Infosys. I mean, what did it do. https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.asp... > These students are one of the primary abusers of the H1B system. Right, the startups in bay area, good groups at Apples, Googles and Facebooks of the world are filled with people from Infosys ;) >Literally every scam I…

> If anything, most of the technically competent desi people in US have a US degree.

What I understood GP to be saying is that "most desi people in US having a US degree are technically incompetent".

Both these view points are not incompatible, and true in my experience.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#88

Post by cfadvan »

UncleEntity wrote: post #85
rohit2412 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, say I break India into North India and South India as different countries, that doubles the visa the people there receive. What changed? How about Breaking India down into a hundred different countries? Did we increase the visas a hundred times? EU is a unified political and economic entity, with individual states having well defined freedom. Just like a federation. India is like that, so is USA. So, does EU also…

> ...unless you really think that a person born in Tuvalu should have 130,000 times higher chance of a green card than a person born in India. I personally think people (and capital) should be able freely move anywhere they want without having to worry about some arbitrary lines on a map but that's not the point, the point is no matter how you look at it someone is going to be "discriminated" against so a person from…

Honest question, why do you think that there should be totally free movement? Let’s say the US economy implodes, should a few hundred million Americans be allowed to pick a country to take over by default and sheer strength of numbers? What if half the population of India felt like moving to Mexico? What if half of the population of Mexico felt like moving to Vanu’Atu?

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#89

Post by [deleted] »

mavelikara wrote: post #87
abc_lisper wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every time the topic of H1B comes up, people bring up Infosys. Why is that? They must be partial to Infosys. I mean, what did it do. https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.asp... > These students are one of the primary abusers of the H1B system. Right, the startups in bay area, good groups at Apples, Googles and Facebooks of the world are filled with people from Infosys ;) >Literally every scam I…

> If anything, most of the technically competent desi people in US have a US degree. What I understood GP to be saying is that "most desi people in US having a US degree are technically incompetent". Both these view points are not incompatible, and true in my experience.

[deleted]

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#90

Post by Micrococonut »

toweringgoat wrote: post #44
sus_007 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am thinking about coming aboard this particular boat i.e come to the USA. What would you do if you were me ?

Canada, Europe, Australia, NZ. There are places with Bay Area style salaries, there are other places with lower salaries - either way, you'll be living a comfortable life since costs will be lower than Bay Area. You'll universally find a much better healthcare system (e.g. health insurance not tied to your employer), with the exception of the UK. You'll find a humane immigration system that doesn't kick you out if yo…

'"Second World" refers to the former communist-socialist, industrial states, (formerly the Eastern bloc, the territory and sphere of influence of the Union of Soviet Socialists Republic) today: Russia, Eastern Europe (e.g., Poland) and some of the Turk States (e.g., Kazakhstan) as well as China.' - From Google.
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