Oh those mother fuckers.
Can't believe I'll actually have to switch to windows to develop my OpenGL/WebGL games.
Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
81–90 of 466 posts
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fortunately you can still use Vulkan on iOS and Mac OS through MoltenVK[1], a Vulkan implemention in Metal. [1] https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK
Sure, but the whole point of both Vulkan and Metal is to bring out more performance by being lower-level. I'd assume that at least part of that benefit is lost when you use something like this.
It's still way faster than opengl in some senarios
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#83This is a problem that is entirely of Apple's own doing.
Microsoft could not care less about OpenGL on Windows. However, it works just fine.
You know why? As soon as you install your video card drivers, your OpenGL implementation is no longer from Microsoft. It comes from AMD, NVidia or Intel, with all needed optimizations for their hardware.
Apple insisted in not allowing this and doing the OpenGL implementation themselves (which was always crappy and outdated).
Had they allowed the GPU vendors the ability to provide their own implementation, this would have been a non issue.
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#84OpenGL isn't pretty, but it's at least cross-platform. And my impression was that OpenGL support is mostly handled by the GPU manufacturers, so I'm not sure how much Apple gains here by deprecating OpenGL. Requiring developers to use an API locked to a particular platform feels pretty hostile to me. Doesn't matter if that API isn't perfect, or even far from it.
It seems like a clear signal that Apple is preparing to develop its own GPUs. They're already doing this on the iPhones.
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#85While this is startling, it seems pretty consistent with Apple's modus operandi in a lot of areas -- leap forward to where they think the industry is going and hope they're right. OpenGL is effectively being deprecated by its own developers in favor of Vulkan, which has an open source implementation for macOS and iOS, developed in part by Valve, built on top of Metal: https://store.steampowered.com/news/37575/ If gam…
OpenGL is "learnable" by someone in the process of learning. Vulkan and Metal are much less approachable. This will put a huge damper on low-level graphics programming as a hobby.
They need a new more developer-friendly API built on top of Vulkan as a replacement for OpenGL.
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
> All they'll accomplish is further killing off the already-small presence they have in the gaming space. In the AAA game space you mean. Else, in the casual gaming space, iOS is perhaps the most popular platform -- and the new integration effort means all those games will be able to run on macOS as well soon.
And those games are horrible. Almost all of them are built around exploiting weaknesses in the human psyche to convince people to spend money and become addicted. The biggest difference between those games and gambling is that you don't carry a slot machine in your pocket. For the most part the only exceptions to that are the games that were ported from desktop.
“99% of everything is shit”
There are plenty great games. It help to source them from a gaming community you trust.
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#87OpenGL isn't pretty, but it's at least cross-platform. And my impression was that OpenGL support is mostly handled by the GPU manufacturers, so I'm not sure how much Apple gains here by deprecating OpenGL. Requiring developers to use an API locked to a particular platform feels pretty hostile to me. Doesn't matter if that API isn't perfect, or even far from it.
> And my impression was that OpenGL support is mostly handled by the GPU manufacturers
You would be correct, but not on OSX.
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
WebGPU would gain traction if it was based on Vulkan. But it's not. However, Mozilla's Obsidian API is: https://github.com/KhronosGroup/WebGLNext-Proposals/tree/mas... Apple has so little to gain over Vulkan by developing its own API but so much to lose by not adopting Vulkan (gaming companies may actually prefer developing games on the cross-platform Vulkan to target macOS/iOS devices, too, at the same time, instead…
> instead of using DirectX Maybe Nadella will push for Vulkan support on Xbox, or maybe Xbox will die off, who knows. Unless one of those happens, DirectX is not going away. As soon as consoles come into the equation, you are stuck writing a PAL (or using an existing engine that already has one) because they use proprietary APIs and that's unlikely to change. It's not ideal, but that's the reality. Apple is following…
My bet is they spin the whole gaming division off or sell it to someone like Amazon. It’s not really a great fit anymore and IMO they need to be bolted to a company with a greater interest in the creative side of the business (i.e. running a movie/game studio) than Microsoft.
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#89I would be a lot more okay with this if Apple supported Vulkan, the more portable comparable API, rather than just the macOS/iOS-only Metal. I also wonder what means for WebGL and its future. Right now, WebGL works in browsers on macOS, Linux, Windows, iOS, Android, which is incredible. There is no equivalent. Sure, Apple has started working on WebGPU, but that’s not yet ready nor is it guaranteed to gain Linux, Wind…
Maybe there is no equivalent, but WebGL is not a mature technology. Webgl stuff still breaks or has performance bugs whenever some part of the OS/Browser/GPU Driver/GPU Hardware sandwich changes. You can run the conformance tests yourself.
I don't see how a technology can get to a mature status if a major hardware company decides to not support it. The real question is WHY don't they support it? Is there a webMetal?