Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist • Hacker News Board

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#81

Post by acqq » Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 10:21 PM UTC

jasonlotito wrote: post #61

acqq wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see jasonlotito, you write about the main article author. As far as I understood, he tried to use the free university hosting but it was for him "cumbersome" to upload there and to follow the stats. His added values were only easier upload and easier following of the number of "reads." Note however that he does "self publishing" experiment. Enough readers here would be able to make him one click upload script in le…

He was also concerned that after leaving the university, they would take down the docs, and the links to them would then be broken. I'm just wondering how the suggestion to use Google Sites or another free service is any different then using Scribd?

Google Sites won't forbid you the access once you're not on your university.

For case of stopping providing the services, take as the example Geocites -- it took a decade for them to stop hosting, and the only victim were the long forgotten and deserted pages. On another side, there is still content I uploaded on Tripod at least ten years ago, for which I forgot my passwords years ago.

If years of free hosting are not enough for you, then you have to pay for the hosting and have a bit more control. But even the hosting site to which you pay can go out of business. Nothing is forever, you just have to maintain your online content if you want to have control over it.

I'm still curious to learn about the advantages of scibd. I admit I don't know why most users use it.

With enough ideas or usage scenarios, maybe somebody will make something better!

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#82

Post by acqq » Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 10:24 PM UTC

inerte wrote: post #73

points wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the whole HTML5 thing was a big PR exercise to improve the way they are seen. Possibly also a big play to get acquired - "We're doing cool stuff with fonts! Buy us!". Fundamentally though, they're about locking away documents behind a pay wall. And personally, I don't see their value proposition at all.

Scribd's HTML5 was about having crawlable (read: show up in Google) content. Nothing wrong with that, btw.

I think it was just about "gaming Google" -- at some point the links to pages on scribd had higher ranks than original pdfs. I consider that more like successful spamming of Google search than long-term feature.

How is it now? Do they still have higher rank? I'd consider than that a bug in Google ranking.

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#83

Post by dfranke » Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 10:30 PM UTC

thaumaturgy wrote: post #9

I think there are a few takeaways here: * You have to charge from the very beginning. If you start a free service, and then try to establish a pay system afterward, your users will feel tricked and trapped and they will rebel loudly. Scribd seems to have been in a hurry to get adoption, so they made it free to host documents; as this guy said though, he much preferred hosting with Scribd over doing it manually on his…

I think the takeaway is a lot broader: never assume that a company won't do evil things with your data if you don't have a service contract with them saying that they can't. See also: http://xkcd.com/743

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#84

Post by evilduck » Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 10:31 PM UTC

there wrote: post #62

ajscherer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would flip that around on you: I think it is time that companies reach a point in their understanding of users' reaction to the bait & switch. The value of your service to a user isn't going to increase simply due to the passage of time or growth of your site. If they wouldn't pay for it on day 1, the odds are they won't pay for it after 2 years of using the service. If, in the process of trying to monetize your se…

I would flip that around on you: I think it is time that companies reach a point in their understanding of users' reaction to the bait & switch. i agree. The value of your service to a user isn't going to increase simply due to the passage of time or growth of your site. i disagree. many users may not pay on the first day because they don't see the value in it, or don't understand how the site works. but being able t…

Maybe. But on the other hand, they've provided me their service for free for several years now and putting it behind a pay-wall would effectively be holding my social network hostage.

Not only do I value Facebook's service at less than $1/mo, but I'd be highly resentful of the switch, especially if I percieved it as a money grab or network lock-in attempt, instead of a reflection of their increasing costs (which could still be problematic if I knew they were wasting lots of money).

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#85

Post by jasonlotito » Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 11:22 PM UTC

acqq wrote: post #81

jasonlotito wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was also concerned that after leaving the university, they would take down the docs, and the links to them would then be broken. I'm just wondering how the suggestion to use Google Sites or another free service is any different then using Scribd?

Google Sites won't forbid you the access once you're not on your university. For case of stopping providing the services, take as the example Geocites -- it took a decade for them to stop hosting, and the only victim were the long forgotten and deserted pages. On another side, there is still content I uploaded on Tripod at least ten years ago, for which I forgot my passwords years ago. If years of free hosting are no…

First, the advantages for people were already described. Scribd provided them with things that they found valuable. You dismissed these things because they weren't valuable for you. When you say:

> I'm still curious to learn about the advantages of scibd.

You really mean "I'm still curious to learn about the advantages of scibd for me." If you meant what you originally said, your being purposefully obtuse.

Indeed, in rereading you original comment, you were simply dismissive, and all the alternatives you provided lacked the specific feature sets he was looking for.

> With enough ideas or usage scenarios, maybe somebody will make something better!

Yeah, another document host. Scribd2.

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#86

Post by boredguy8 » Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 11:22 PM UTC

dfranke wrote: post #83

thaumaturgy wrote: post #9

I think there are a few takeaways here: * You have to charge from the very beginning. If you start a free service, and then try to establish a pay system afterward, your users will feel tricked and trapped and they will rebel loudly. Scribd seems to have been in a hurry to get adoption, so they made it free to host documents; as this guy said though, he much preferred hosting with Scribd over doing it manually on his…

I think the takeaway is a lot broader: never assume that a company won't do evil things with your data if you don't have a service contract with them saying that they can't. See also: http://xkcd.com/743

More scary: http://xkcd.com/792/

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#87

Post by nkohari » Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 11:26 PM UTC

daleharvey wrote: post #80

al3x wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I've never understood why Scribd exists at all. The web has done fine at moving documents around before Scribd, and it'll keep doing it fine long after they disappear.

emailing pdf's is not my definition of "doing fine", I am not following the current drama much, but I do thank scribd for letting me look at content I would have otherwise ignored on seeing ".pdf"

I always thought that Scribd was just a reaction to how awful Adobe's free PDF reader has become.

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#88

Post by robryan » Tue, Sep 21, 2010, 2:18 AM UTC

al3x wrote: post #77

jacoblyles wrote: post #37

Early Scribd broke the web by taking open format documents, putting them in a proprietary wrapper, and calling it a "service". Middle Scribd fixed their own brokenness by moving to HTML 5 (which is sometimes more convenient than a PDF, and is certainly "open" and accessible). Late Scribd is again breaking the web by moving documents behind a paywall. Some qualities are just baked into a company's DNA.

Thank you. I've never understood why Scribd exists at all. The web has done fine at moving documents around before Scribd, and it'll keep doing it fine long after they disappear.

I would prefer a service that just focuses on the .pdf discovery rather than a viewer, so like Google Scholar with some social services around it.

You can still get the viewing stats, your just not at the services whim, simply move your file and the service will just remove the listing. Makes sense to me, probably some stuff like this out there seems fairly obvious.

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#89

Post by YuriNiyazov » Tue, Sep 21, 2010, 2:24 AM UTC

ajscherer wrote: post #22

ulf wrote: post #3

Sometimes, when reading pieces like this, I think it is time that we as internet users reach a certain point in our understanding of entitlement. There are so many services we readily use, most free of charge, while some of them provide a huge service to us. Some even make us money. But if the service providers themselves try to validate their business by making money out of it in some way, we start bitching... I do…

I would flip that around on you: I think it is time that companies reach a point in their understanding of users' reaction to the bait & switch. The value of your service to a user isn't going to increase simply due to the passage of time or growth of your site. If they wouldn't pay for it on day 1, the odds are they won't pay for it after 2 years of using the service. If, in the process of trying to monetize your se…

"The value of your service to a user isn't going to increase simply due to the passage of time or growth of your site."

I disagree, at least in one specific case. A new dating site doesn't have enough of a userbase of the gender that I am interested in for me to signup and pay a monthly fee. If they successfully complete their marketing play, I will gladly sign up.

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#90

Post by acqq » Tue, Sep 21, 2010, 3:02 AM UTC

jasonlotito wrote: post #85

acqq wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Sites won't forbid you the access once you're not on your university. For case of stopping providing the services, take as the example Geocites -- it took a decade for them to stop hosting, and the only victim were the long forgotten and deserted pages. On another side, there is still content I uploaded on Tripod at least ten years ago, for which I forgot my passwords years ago. If years of free hosting are no…

First, the advantages for people were already described. Scribd provided them with things that they found valuable. You dismissed these things because they weren't valuable for you. When you say: > I'm still curious to learn about the advantages of scibd. You really mean "I'm still curious to learn about the advantages of scibd for me." If you meant what you originally said, your being purposefully obtuse. Indeed, in…

The rest of my line that you omitted when quoting the start of it was:

"I admit I don't know why most users use it."

Note: most users. If you can't answer, please restrain from trying to make a conflict. The responses like "embed," or "ease of upload," or "read statistics" are actually useful! I'd really like more of such answers, but your answer is both unusable and insulting. When I commented on some of the features mentioned it's only because I want to hear something "yes feature A is easy but there is also the advantage B" etc.

The argument that you can post to scribd and worry less that it will become inaccessible compared to when you upload it to some other site is what scribd themselves already proved to be false.