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I am leaving llvm

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81–90 of 145 posts

Re: I am leaving llvm

#81

Post by ylem »

AdamM12 wrote: post #75
Larrikin wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretending that racism and sexism don't exist and never existed is a nonsensical stance to take and is usually a stance taken by someone who feels that they never have to worry about them. Programs like AA exist because it still is a problem. There are still a lot of people in power with those disgusting ideas. When it was argued that voting rights act was antiquated because racism was no longer a major issue, North…

Who's pretending that racism and sexism doesn't exist? I don't see any previous comments on this thread saying that or even remotely implying it.

There was a comment in the previous thread suggesting that the diversity scholarship was sexist and racist. In a world where racism and sexism were absent, then a scholarship directed towards a particular gender or race would be racist or sexist. I believe the point of the original poster is that to label the scholarship as racist or sexist is to assume that we live in a world with racial/gender/ethnic equality.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#82

Post by ylem »

bmarquez wrote: post #44
badsectoracula wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not know how that looks to other people but to me these rules look both sexist and racist.

As someone who would qualify for the linked program, I agree. A lot of words just to say "no Asians allowed".

Can you or the parent comment on my you think that the above program is racist/sexist?

Re: I am leaving llvm

#83

Post by chickenfries »

badsectoracula wrote: post #26
chickenfries wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment made me think that someone had disparaged them for their political beliefs or religion, but after reading that doesn't seem to have happened, unless they left it out for some reason, but that would be odd. In fact, if I understand the letter correctly, the straw that broke OP's back was this: > https://www.outreachy.org/apply/eligibility/ To which I say... really? Ok, that's too bad that you don't want t…

I do not know how that looks to other people but to me these rules look both sexist and racist.

I look at it more holistically. Men are not underrepresented in the industry and open source community. Neither are the various races not addressed by this particular scholarship. There are other programs you can apply for to get paid to work on LLVM or other open source projects, such as Google Summer of Code. I don't see how this program could actually have a detrimental effect on anyone, let alone a racist or sexist one.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#84

Post by chickenfries »

rhapsodic wrote: post #63
morvita wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does when those events and the decades that followed have prevented minorities from having the opportunities to become a good engineer. This isn't about you and I not recognizing talent in front of us, it's about giving that talent a chance to stand in front of, and ideally next to, us.

>It does when those events and the decades that followed have prevented minorities from having the opportunities to become a good engineer. This isn't about you and I not recognizing talent in front of us, it's about giving that talent a chance to stand in front of, and ideally next to, us. Oh please. For decades, in the US, there have been programs designed to attract women and minorities to engineering and tech car…

It's an opinion that makes it very hard to work with you, if I were a woman or minority. I wouldn't want you to review my code, wondering if you think I'm competent or if I'm an entitled person benefiting from unfair "advantages that have been heaped upon" me.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#85

Post by rhapsodic »

chickenfries wrote: post #84
rhapsodic wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It does when those events and the decades that followed have prevented minorities from having the opportunities to become a good engineer. This isn't about you and I not recognizing talent in front of us, it's about giving that talent a chance to stand in front of, and ideally next to, us. Oh please. For decades, in the US, there have been programs designed to attract women and minorities to engineering and tech car…

It's an opinion that makes it very hard to work with you, if I were a woman or minority. I wouldn't want you to review my code, wondering if you think I'm competent or if I'm an entitled person benefiting from unfair "advantages that have been heaped upon" me.

>It's an opinion that makes it very hard to work with you, if I were a woman or minority. I wouldn't want you to review my code, wondering if you think I'm competent or if I'm an entitled person benefiting from unfair "advantages that have been heaped upon" me.

So you're assuming because of my opinion, I would not treat you fairly?

Of course! Anyone who deviates from the SJW line is de facto a bad person! There's no need for logic and reasoning when you deal with people like me! Just cast aspersions on my character and signal your virtue to the rest of your tribe!

Re: I am leaving llvm

#86

Post by chickenfries »

rhapsodic wrote: post #85
chickenfries wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an opinion that makes it very hard to work with you, if I were a woman or minority. I wouldn't want you to review my code, wondering if you think I'm competent or if I'm an entitled person benefiting from unfair "advantages that have been heaped upon" me.

>It's an opinion that makes it very hard to work with you, if I were a woman or minority. I wouldn't want you to review my code, wondering if you think I'm competent or if I'm an entitled person benefiting from unfair "advantages that have been heaped upon" me. So you're assuming because of my opinion, I would not treat you fairly? Of course! Anyone who deviates from the SJW line is de facto a bad person! There's no…

I regret answering. If you're not going to engage in good faith, but instead go on some tired diatribe about tribalism, then what hope do we have for understanding each other? You claim that you want to have a discussion, but then you strawman me like that. The irony of you complaining about "tribes" while you label everyone who disagrees with you an SJW...

EDIT:

> So you're assuming because of my opinion, I would not treat you fairly?

I'm assuming because of your opinion that you might misjudge me as a token minority, underserving of my position, perhaps because you catch me on an off day, or because you judge me to be an SJW because of the way I act. You're only human, and we all are susceptible to misjudgment, stereotyping, etc. It's just the human condition.

> Anyone who deviates from the SJW line is de facto a bad person!

To be clear, I didn't respond to you because I think you're a bad person, because I don't, and I don't know you. I responded because I have some vague hope that mutual understanding can be had on the internet through discussion. But responses like this make me feel like a fool for having hope.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#87

Post by bmarquez »

chickenfries wrote: post #83
badsectoracula wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not know how that looks to other people but to me these rules look both sexist and racist.

I look at it more holistically. Men are not underrepresented in the industry and open source community. Neither are the various races not addressed by this particular scholarship. There are other programs you can apply for to get paid to work on LLVM or other open source projects, such as Google Summer of Code. I don't see how this program could actually have a detrimental effect on anyone, let alone a racist or sexi…

My issue is that the scholarship lumps all the Asian groups together, as if Indians or Chinese have the same language, culture and representation in technology as Hmong or Cambodians. It just plays into racial stereotypes[1] in America.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority#Issues_faced_by...

Re: I am leaving llvm

#88

Post by dang »

rhapsodic wrote: post #85
chickenfries wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an opinion that makes it very hard to work with you, if I were a woman or minority. I wouldn't want you to review my code, wondering if you think I'm competent or if I'm an entitled person benefiting from unfair "advantages that have been heaped upon" me.

>It's an opinion that makes it very hard to work with you, if I were a woman or minority. I wouldn't want you to review my code, wondering if you think I'm competent or if I'm an entitled person benefiting from unfair "advantages that have been heaped upon" me. So you're assuming because of my opinion, I would not treat you fairly? Of course! Anyone who deviates from the SJW line is de facto a bad person! There's no…

You've broken the HN guidelines several times in this thread, but egregiously here. You're not assuming good faith, are name-calling, and are not responding to the strongest plausible interpretation of what the other person said. Could you please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and abide by them?

It's bad enough that the community is as divided as it is around these issues. Users need to respect the rules for HN to survive as a place for thoughtful discussion.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#89

Post by red75prime »

chickenfries wrote: post #86
rhapsodic wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's an opinion that makes it very hard to work with you, if I were a woman or minority. I wouldn't want you to review my code, wondering if you think I'm competent or if I'm an entitled person benefiting from unfair "advantages that have been heaped upon" me. So you're assuming because of my opinion, I would not treat you fairly? Of course! Anyone who deviates from the SJW line is de facto a bad person! There's no…

I regret answering. If you're not going to engage in good faith, but instead go on some tired diatribe about tribalism, then what hope do we have for understanding each other? You claim that you want to have a discussion, but then you strawman me like that. The irony of you complaining about "tribes" while you label everyone who disagrees with you an SJW... EDIT: > So you're assuming because of my opinion, I would no…

Special treatment of some group always (almost always, children and some other groups are treated differently and it feels OK) triggers the feeling of unfairness and raises concerns about objectivity of testing process.

> You're only human, and we all are susceptible to misjudgment, stereotyping, etc.

Yes, double-blind trials were invented to prevent an experimenter from nudging results in a desired direction. In the case of increasing diversity, the desired direction is explicitly specified and encouraged.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#90

Post by YuukiRey »

"The last drop was llvm associating itself with an organization that openly discriminates based on sex and ancestry (1,2)."

I think this paragraph says more about the author of the post and his true intentions than the rest of the post.

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