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An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

newyorker.com

81–90 of 102 posts

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#81
The article mentioned that glutamate is currently produced by fermentation with molasses as the main feedstock. I found a fascinating open access article about the history of glutamate production here:

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/90/3/728S/4597145

The author is an employee of Ajinomoto Co, Inc., the same company that the author of the New Yorker article visited.

Abstract:

In 1907 Kikunae Ikeda, a professor at the Tokyo Imperial University, began his research to identify the umami component in kelp. Within a year, he had succeeded in isolating, purifying, and identifying the principal component of umami and quickly obtained a production patent. In 1909 Saburosuke Suzuki, an entrepreneur, and Ikeda began the industrial production of monosodium L-glutamate (MSG). The first industrial production process was an extraction method in which vegetable proteins were treated with hydrochloric acid to disrupt peptide bonds. L-Glutamic acid hydrochloride was then isolated from this material and purified as MSG. Initial production of MSG was limited because of the technical drawbacks of this method. Better methods did not emerge until the 1950s. One of these was direct chemical synthesis, which was used from 1962 to 1973. In this procedure, acrylonitrile was the starting material, and optical resolution of DL-glutamic acid was achieved by preferential crystallization. In 1956 a direct fermentation method to produce glutamate was introduced. The advantages of the fermentation method (eg, reduction of production costs and environmental load) were large enough to cause all glutamate manufacturers to shift to fermentation. Today, total world production of MSG by fermentation is estimated to be 2 million tons/y (2 billion kg/y).

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#82

TIL glutamate is one of four amino acids that also functions as a neurotransmitter. Obviously, this does not refute any of the science disproving "MSG sensitivity" but I still find it interesting. Further, I wonder if there are people out there that claim sensitivity to aspartate or serine given that they too are both neurotransmitters and amino acids. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotransmitter

From what I've read, no level of glutamate intake in humans allows it to cross the blood-brain barrier, or, for that matter, even substantially increase the serum glutamate level.

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#83
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done a double blind experiment with myself, and msg reliably triggers migraines.

Scientists have been doing challenge studies with MSG for 4 decades, and no study that presented subjects with MSGs and detected any adverse reactions significantly different than placebo has ever reproduced. Even the (rebutted, non-reproducing) studies that showed adverse reactions to MSG (in the 80s and early 90s) showed headache as one of the symptoms not associated with MSG (tingling and numbness were more closel…

I think it’s very likely that something with MSG on the label often includes things like anti-caking agents or nitrates that may actually be the culprit. I kept a food diary for a year and the common headache trigger seemed to be “MSG”. Changing my diet to avoid it eliminated the headaches. So it really doesn’t matter to me if someone on the internet says it can’t be MSG. The practical result in my case was close enough. I have sympathy for anyone that suffers from migraines.

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#84
post #23
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't this mean that eating any meat, or your own body chemistry, would also cause headaches?

You would think so, but somehow the artificial stuff is different or in greater concentration. Here's how I discovered my MSG intolerance: I made a bunch of onion soup (from onion soup mix), and ate a ton of it. I then spent the next 24 hours feeling terrible, downing pepto, etc. A few weeks later I made a recipe that included onion soup mix as an ingredient. Again I felt terrible. I though, Aha, I must have an onion…

Hey pc2g4d: check out this:

https://open.library.ubc.ca/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/...

Wow.

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#85
post #64

The article rather understates the use of glutamate in the body. > it is an essential building block of protein found in muscle tissue, the brain, and other organs. It's not only found in every organ, it's present in 99.6% of all human proteins, out of 20328 only 72 do not use glutamate, and of those 29 are keratin proteins.

Interestingly, though (just to digress -- your point is quite valid) it's not an essential amino acid for humans. Obviously it's required to make proteins, but if we don't get enough in our diet our bodies will synthesize it. It's just interesting that the molecule we evolved to recognize as a "protein!" marker in our food turns out not to be one of the protein submolecules we actually need to surive.

I agree with you, but it makes sense that we may have evolved to be able to synthesize it. Since it's such a crucial amino acid, it would be an advantageous adaptation to do so.

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The list of ingredients on Knorr bouillon is extensive: Salt, monosodium glutamate, hydrogenated cottonseed oil, chicken fat, hydrolyzed soy/corn protein, dehydrated mechanically separated cooked chicken, dehydrated chicken meat, dehydrated chicken broth, autolyzed yeast extract, dehydrated onions & parsley, lactose, water, colour, spices & spice extract, disodium guanylate, disodium inosinate, citric acid, tartaric…

That's right: "bouillon" isn't "MSG". Some eight months ago, I reproduced these effects in myself by drinking a hot water solution of something called "Better Than Bouillon". I put about a teaspoon into a mug of hot water. On one mug per day, I was okay, but if I drank three per day, I got the headaches. The listed ingredients of this paste are: roasted beef with concentrated beef stock, salt, hydrolyzed soy protein,…

I get that you say onion is fine for you, but it's amazing how non-obvious and common the actual culprit could be, whatever it is in your case: I have a relative who has, through trial and error, determined that tomatoes, onions, and garlic are among his migraine triggers - but shallots are fine despite being quite similar to onions. Bodies are weird. :)

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#87
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would think so, but somehow the artificial stuff is different or in greater concentration. Here's how I discovered my MSG intolerance: I made a bunch of onion soup (from onion soup mix), and ate a ton of it. I then spent the next 24 hours feeling terrible, downing pepto, etc. A few weeks later I made a recipe that included onion soup mix as an ingredient. Again I felt terrible. I though, Aha, I must have an onion…

Hey pc2g4d: check out this: https://open.library.ubc.ca/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/... Wow.

"The daily intake is estimated to be between 50 and 200mg/kg/day in industrialized countries"

Wow, indeed. An estimate of between 3.4g - 13.6g per day for a person that weighs 150lb is wrong by a magnitude. The upper end of that estimate has people burning through a 16oz packet of MSG in one month.

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#88
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done a double blind experiment with myself, and msg reliably triggers migraines.

Scientists have been doing challenge studies with MSG for 4 decades, and no study that presented subjects with MSGs and detected any adverse reactions significantly different than placebo has ever reproduced. Even the (rebutted, non-reproducing) studies that showed adverse reactions to MSG (in the 80s and early 90s) showed headache as one of the symptoms not associated with MSG (tingling and numbness were more closel…

Ajinomoto vs Morton's salt as the control, milled to the same consistency in gelcaps.

How did they find the subjects? Was it a general call for college students, or did they attempt to drill down to find rare sensitive individuals?

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#89
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a culinary perspective, the flip side of that --- referenced in the article --- is that sometimes you want the umami taste sensation without clouding the flavor of the product you're "seasoning". You can bump umami with soy sauce, parm, or tomato paste, but not without adding soy, parm, or tomato flavor. MSG lets you turn that knob while mostly keeping the pure flavor of the rest of the dish intact.

I identify with both of these issues, and have mixed feelings about MSG. I'm a sort of accidental vegetarian, in that I never really decided to become one; the rest of my family is vegetarian and I stopped eating meat because it was inconvenient, and then gradually I lost interest in it. I realized at some point MSG is really useful for adding umami flavor to things without adding other flavors, like seaweed or tomat…

A really poignant writing, thanks.

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#90
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people don't know that tomatoes, cheeses and other foods naturally have MSG. And: > FDA considers the addition of MSG to foods to be “generally recognized as safe” (GRAS). Although many people identify themselves as sensitive to MSG, in studies with such individuals given MSG or a placebo, scientists have not been able to consistently trigger reactions. [1] [1]: https://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabel…

The placebo effect is really powerful

Not really. It only "works" for subjective measurements. As an asthma patient how well they can breathe after taking medicine, and you can get a placebo effect. Measure the volume of airflow in and out of their lungs and you don't.
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