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The Chinese Car Invasion Is Coming

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81–90 of 91 posts

Re: The Chinese Car Invasion Is Coming

#81
post #6

If global markets aren't transforming China out of totalitarianism, then morally, shouldn't we stop assisting the economic development of China? I'm horrified by some of the stories I've been told by my Chinese co-workers. Threats of violence to family members (for speaking freely) by the Chinese government is extremely common.

Did you ever wonder who created this tyrannical technological monster of a government? I don't think a bunch of Chinese farmers did. The British basically conquered China in the Opium Wars and they owned Hong Kong for 150 years.

It seems to me that external powers have built China into what it is today. Mao Zhedong was installed by a group working through Yale, home of the Skull and Bones. They put him in charge of propaganda and you can see their own article about it here - http://digital.library.yale.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collectio...

Mao went on to murder somewhere between 70 and 100 million Chinese people who threatened the new communist government. Western media never talks about that.

Every nation has given up their technology to China one way or the other. Bill Clinton was accused and tried for selling nuclear secrets to them. Israel regularly funnels military technology to China. So where's this going?

My opinion: This is your next world government, built by shadowy figures who are constantly at work to own every aspect of you life.

Re: The Chinese Car Invasion Is Coming

#82

Does anyone know how much of current US/European cars use Chinese parts? I think if current car manufacturers are already dependent on Chinese parts, then we are not having much of an "invasion" really.

Tesla does, alu profiles are from China.

Re: The Chinese Car Invasion Is Coming

#83

In big Chinese cities it costs you the equivalent of many thousands of dollars to get a licence plate. Without that city plate you cannot drive in the city during rush hour, you have to have a city plate. Typically electric cars and plug in hybrids are exempt from the scheme. This means that if you live in Shenzen and want to get around then you can see if you win the lottery of licence plates and are allowed to pay…

Just to be clear, Shanghai is the one and only city where license plate cost thousands of dollars.

sure http://www.eyeshenzhen.com/content/2017-12/27/content_181168...

Re: The Chinese Car Invasion Is Coming

#84
post #6

If global markets aren't transforming China out of totalitarianism, then morally, shouldn't we stop assisting the economic development of China? I'm horrified by some of the stories I've been told by my Chinese co-workers. Threats of violence to family members (for speaking freely) by the Chinese government is extremely common.

It was all well and good when we were getting good cheap Chinese goods. Now that China is rising, we've all suddenly become humanitarians.

Re: The Chinese Car Invasion Is Coming

#85
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. A country can be prosperous with no foreign trade. Earth has no foreign trade and extreme poverty there fell by 50% between 2000 and 2012. China is not even an order of magnitude smaller.

My understanding is that Earth imports almost 100% of its energy without generating any for export. Would you care to see what happens when its foreign energy supply is truly cut off?

Make The Sun Great Again, that trade deficit is monstrous, Earth has been taking advantage of us for far too long.

Re: The Chinese Car Invasion Is Coming

#86
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that Earth imports almost 100% of its energy without generating any for export. Would you care to see what happens when its foreign energy supply is truly cut off?

And we are not trading with the sun.

Even worse, we're just stealing from it!

Re: The Chinese Car Invasion Is Coming

#87
post #78
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia and I think all post Soviet countries. Turkey and most of the middle East countries are full of chinese cars. I think developed countries will lose the markets where they used to sell their older off lease cars to. Eastern European countries are literally Germany & France's junk yard. Looks like thats about to change

Not going to change for a bit. There’s still the fallout from Dieselgate. All of those cars are ending up for peanuts in Eastern Europe. My friend from Ukraine was quoting me insanely low prices for premium cars in Ukraine. And that’s with their super high tax rate. Also, Eastern Europeans like to show off. Car is a major status symbol. Driving a Chinese car is a hair above driving a Soviet car. So anyone who can aff…

showing off is huge in that part of the world. they will prefer a 20 year old bmw thats falling apart, makes all kind of noises and stinks gasoline rather than get behind a wheel of a newer economy Hyundai

Re: The Chinese Car Invasion Is Coming

#88
post #87
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not going to change for a bit. There’s still the fallout from Dieselgate. All of those cars are ending up for peanuts in Eastern Europe. My friend from Ukraine was quoting me insanely low prices for premium cars in Ukraine. And that’s with their super high tax rate. Also, Eastern Europeans like to show off. Car is a major status symbol. Driving a Chinese car is a hair above driving a Soviet car. So anyone who can aff…

showing off is huge in that part of the world. they will prefer a 20 year old bmw thats falling apart, makes all kind of noises and stinks gasoline rather than get behind a wheel of a newer economy Hyundai

Exactly. And provided that premium class cars are now a quarter of the price just a few years ago, who in their right mind would get a new Kia vs a 3yo Audi/BMW.

Re: The Chinese Car Invasion Is Coming

#89
post #6

If global markets aren't transforming China out of totalitarianism, then morally, shouldn't we stop assisting the economic development of China? I'm horrified by some of the stories I've been told by my Chinese co-workers. Threats of violence to family members (for speaking freely) by the Chinese government is extremely common.

This is a very fair point. There are so many things that go unmentioned when discussing the consequences (current and long term) of globalism. Particularly a nation state such as China. Here are a few I can think of: 1. Mass global pollution. Not only transporting materials, but largely unregulated environmental destruction. What would the pollution levels look like today without NAFTA ETC? I muse at how the most ard…

> 1. "A clean planet and Globalism have been proven in the last 25 years to be mutually exclusive."

Actually, the environment is what gets cleaned up as people are lifted out of poverty (which globalism accomplishes better than anything else). See reforestation of Europe, the post-industrial USA, and now even China tackling a severe pollution problem. People need the ability to provide food before they worry about the rest.

> 2. "We have unions and social justice warriors in this country fighting for higher minimum wage, living wage, cheap/free health care, open borders to refugees and any in need, Freedoms of every sort"

Unions began as (fairly racist) mechanisms for preventing labor competition and thus artificially high wages. Minimum wage is not a national issue and causing problems in a lot of places trying to push it too high too fast (and another mechanism, like unions that keep out other laborers / raise the cost of production, that will help some and really punish those kept out).

"Cheap/free healthcare" as I'm guessing you perceive it to be, is more likely pushing the costs higher in a lot of ways through market distortions. US healthcare suffers extreme cost disease as SSC would say, but the cause is primarily driven by government encouraging consumption and restricting supply (similar to housing in major cities)

No idea what you mean about open borders, but it's not generally the left pushing for that. Sanders' platform was rooted in nativism and economic fantasy, like Trump's (cue "Bernie would have won!")

If we care about the poor in China, or elsewhere, we will trade with them and let them plug into the global economy. Period. The last 50-70 years have lifted people out of poverty at an unprecedented rate in human history because of the globalism you decry. Your anecdotes about however difficult factory life might be do not change the reality that the people there have overwhelmingly voted with their feet to take those jobs over the old ones in the field. Change takes time, and holding poorer nations to the strict standards of the first world is counter-productive, cruel, and unawares.

> 3. "We have enabled China to become a world power. People laugh at the thought of China being a military threat to the US. Are you kidding?"

I don't think anyone takes that lightly, certainly not the Pentagon. Still, the US is flush with natural resources, still ahead technologically though that is certainly changing fast and a better trading partner with the world. They still have the upper hand. US manufacturing output has also never been more productive than today, so the "death" of it is overblown. There are fewer jobs because we're able to do more with less, thanks technology.

> 4. "Their own government conspires against us along with wealthy business owners."

Certainly a problem, hopefully our country takes cybersecurity seriously. Still, you want a globalized China because that's the only way to influence them. Trade makes war unlikely, unlike the opposite.

> 5. "Since they don't care about how impoverished their work force is, they can outlast any competitor."

Tell that to the SE Asian economies that are stealing a lot of work from Chinese factories these days?

> 6. "How is it good that we have become so dependent on a rouge and untrustworthy, immoral state who owns much of our property and debt?"

That… doesn't make much sense. They're investing here and abroad, which is generally a good thing. If you haven't noticed, it isn't like the US Government isn't willing to pull things like keeping their tech out of US telecom and such if it need to. If you think an increasingly wealthy country of 1.6 billion people will be prevented from investing globally, its simply nuts.

> "Is it really worth all that cheap crap we have sitting around in our closets, attics and garages"

If you haven't noticed, goods from there and many other developing countries are no longer "cheap crap", it also means that US consumer dollars go much farther. US citizens get more for less, and can allocate more resources away from spending on necessities (or deal with the rising healthcare benefit costs often depressing their wage growth -- though thats another problem)

TLDR: Argument for globalism "Nearly 1 billion people have been taken out of extreme poverty in 20 years"

https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21578665-nearly-1-bil...

We won't fix poverty in places by not engaging with them. You don't fix problems w/ governments in India, Africa etc by not engaging with them b/c they don't meet your standard of virtue today. Despite the surveillance state, China in particular is certainly far freer today in 2018 than it was when Mao was murdering 40 million people, and I'd rather that trend continue steadily, if slowly -- just like elsewhere in the world.

You can't just flip a switch, and alienating governments has a pretty poor track record of changing any minds.

Re: The Chinese Car Invasion Is Coming

#90
post #80
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KIA and Hyundai win at the International level in racing and or rallying. That is still the key to selling cars. Ask Mercedes, ask Ferrari, or even Ford. As the saying goes; Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday . I know I'm Old school, and some day in the Future self-driving cars MAY dominate the highways... but (thankfully) that day is not today.

The "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" cliche no longer works in the US market (which is what we're discussing here). Ask any car dealer. US consumers are barely aware of international racing and rallying series. Even Nascar has lost much of its audience and is no longer very effective as an auto marketing channel.

Ok then, I'll let them know they have to return the 4 Billion dollars from the Fast and the Furious frachise because no one cares about racing in the States anymore. Furthermore, since your contention certainly implies Americans have no interest in going fast, I will notify all the car and motorcycle manufacturers to stop producing blindingly quick models for sale here... no one cares.

Plus we're gonna save a fortune on speed enforcement on the roadways. I'm happy about that.

Oh man, and that's right--we better close all the indoor karting tracks, and my buddies who run succesful Racing Schools here should probably also look for another job.

Wait... will this also affect GTA related online gaming? Sure it will. IRacing too I bet. Shoot!

Oh well... it was fun while it lasted.

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