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Ask HN: Does SEO still work in 2018?

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Re: Ask HN: Does SEO still work in 2018?

#81
post #73
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give us some more counter-examples? Where will SEO definitely not help?

If you’re doing something completely new, there might not be too much organic traffic. E.g when AirBnB was launching, the users were not googling for ”home accommodation”, they were looking for hotels. Same for Twitter, nobody was looking for ”sms blogging platform”

Thats not an SEO argument thats a keyword choice argument. If demand is minimal optimize for competitors brands or comparisons to related solutions to what your audience needs when they are potentially in the market for what you offer.

Re: Ask HN: Does SEO still work in 2018?

#83
post #47

I'm a little biased because I currently work as an SEO Manager at an agency, but I would say yes. It REALLY depends on the type of business, what stage the business is at, their goals, and probably a few other things. SEO should almost always be a part of a larger overall marketing strategy. If you're an ecommerce shop optimizing product and category pages - SEO will help. If you're a plumber and ranking higher than…

Give us some more counter-examples? Where will SEO definitely not help?

Sure, do you have a specific type of industry in mind?

In my experience, it's brand new or still relatively young companies that SEO is often not great for. It might be a great thing to engage in in the future for them, but early stage companies strapped for resources need to be more focused on building out an actual brand rather than on ranking page 1 against competitors who may be spending 10-100x on marketing than them and have been around for years.

Re: Ask HN: Does SEO still work in 2018?

#84

SEO works, and always will. However, trying to figure out the latest tricks is a losing game. Even if you do figure out how to make something work today, algorithms will change and you'll be punished for having gamed the system. Instead, write 'honest' content. Write it well. Write it for humans. If you find yourself adding content in hopes the search engine will pick it up, that is a short-term gain for long-term pa…

I don't run a web agency and make 0 dollars from selling SEO. This is not true. Google has been gamed for well over a decade. On a past enterprise, I believed the lie "write good content and it will magically rank" and paid a content writer for about 9 months. She posted lengthy original content about 3 times per week, all highly relevant to the search terms we cared about. I did the same about once a week. A competi…

'I believed the lie "write good content and it will magically rank" ...and paid a content writer for about 9 months.'

Is paying a content writer (who's area of expertise is, usually, being a content writer) a more noble attempt at gaming the system, I wonder?

Re: Ask HN: Does SEO still work in 2018?

#85
Yes. SEO works. The mistake is believing that SEO is just about Google. SEO is also important for places like Etsy, where carefully crafting your listings is important. And despite the belief that SEO is slimy, it's really all about ensuring that your product gets in front of the person that wants your product. So for Etsy, it's not just about the number of people seeing your product, but the number of seeing your product that want to see it, and are willing to buy it.

Re: Ask HN: Does SEO still work in 2018?

#86

SEO works, and always will. However, trying to figure out the latest tricks is a losing game. Even if you do figure out how to make something work today, algorithms will change and you'll be punished for having gamed the system. Instead, write 'honest' content. Write it well. Write it for humans. If you find yourself adding content in hopes the search engine will pick it up, that is a short-term gain for long-term pa…

I don't run a web agency and make 0 dollars from selling SEO. This is not true. Google has been gamed for well over a decade. On a past enterprise, I believed the lie "write good content and it will magically rank" and paid a content writer for about 9 months. She posted lengthy original content about 3 times per week, all highly relevant to the search terms we cared about. I did the same about once a week. A competi…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Does SEO still work in 2018?

#87

I do SEO for lawyers, mostly Family Law. I can tell you SEO works as in: Proven Measured Positive ROI, to the point I wish I was allowed to own a law firm. One thing I would say though is SEO should be one part of your marketing strategy but not all of it. You should have a diversified approach. Edit: Let me offer a different way to look at it. Does having a well organized website help turn visitors into clients? Yes…

This 100%.

SEO is often more jumping between things that don't fit most peoples preconceptions of SEO than it is about editing a title tag or submitting a sitemap.

Re: Ask HN: Does SEO still work in 2018?

#88

I thought I'd try my usual check to see what the state of the art is. Googled "rivonia plumber" (where I live) and got pages like this: http://plumber-plumbers.co.za/index-rivonia-plumbers.html http://www.plumbersgauteng.co.za/gauteng-plumbers-areas/plum... That is so gamed. Keyword stuffing, repeated exact pages. I assume it's better in the US but surely the algos are run over the whole dataset? Is this a worldwide…

Google can’t rank properly repost farm that reformat stackoverflow content, giving them more rank than stackoverflow itself!

If something of that profile can’t get ahead of pages gaming pagerank, independent blogs focusing on content have zero chance without at least doing some legwork on backlinking and keyword optimization.

Re: Ask HN: Does SEO still work in 2018?

#89
I think the Biggest mistake people make is asking, "does it work" about any marketing strategy!

The question itself begs for an anecdotal answer that is completely irrelevant to your circumstances...

More importantly, the amount of people who have given up on strategies too soon or because it wasnt done in a way to provide empirical evidence, is staggering... and the amount of misinformation that flows out into the wild built on those flawed premises is really problematic for those without the context of your situation and the relative context of the situation where those opinions were formed.

The second problem is that opportunity cost is rarely measured by marketers. The third problem is that your resource allocation relative to your objectives is arguably more important than any other factor or opinion about a strategy.

Marketing decisions should be made in the context of your resources, goals, and your broader marketing mix.

The idea that you can evaluate a specific strategy and measure its return in a Silo without considering the opportunity costs and other available strategies relative to your specific resource limitations is very dangerous and needs to be killed off!

The ideal scenario is to optimize to cashflow relative to lifetime value and time value of money...or get as close as possible to this...and choose strategies within the context of this calculation.

You want an SEO strategy? First, figure out if your audience is there and the cost to reach them with paid search and how long it takes to turn into cashflow and the lifetime value of that customer...than evaluate the costs to optimize to rank for that keyword, and how long it will take, than look at your other resources and strategies relative to the likely costs and returns and time to get cash returned relative to those strategies and decide if its worth investing in ranking there...

Once you identify a proven keyword and have context for the cost and value and time and oppirtunity costs, than figure out how to rank for that keyword... maybe you buy a site that is already ranking. Maybe you advertise on sites already ranking. Maybe you think about the user and find a way to create a resource that Google will want to rank because of its utility... and than create empirical tests to measure progress and than you invest !!!

------ The shortcut SEO strategy i like is to ask yourself, what resource can I create for my industry that is not online but would offer so much utility that google has no choice but to optimize their algorithms to rank my resource... like wayne gretzky, go where the puck will be in the future...

When is SEO is done right, its Google trying to optimize its algorithms to rank your content, not vice versa!

Just my two cents.

Re: Ask HN: Does SEO still work in 2018?

#90
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked in SEO since 2006 and the game has changed. However, it's still a game and not a "losing" one by any means. I've seen many businesses including my own boom with good SEO. Back in the old days I got to #1 for "movers", but the tricks back then don't work anymore (which is a good thing). Today, it's much more legitimate and I find the most success with keyword research. It's about finding what your target m…

Do things like meta description tags and site map submissions still matter? Just curious.

Sitemaps are still useful. Eg. my previous employer ran a very large site with hundreds of millions of possible pages to crawl. You can use the sitemaps to help the crawler prioritise given limited crawl budget.

Disclosure: work for Google nowadays but have zero insight into anything internal that's search related. The above is just common sense and should apply to most search engines.

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