Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S • Hacker News Board

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#81

Post by anitil » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 2:12 AM UTC

smelendez wrote: post #72

anitil wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's especially a mystery because even developments in payments from the US (eg Apple Pay) seem more widely adopted where I am (Aus) than in the US. Anyone with some insight as to why want to chip in?

In the US, the biggest adopters of Apple Pay have been big chain grocery, drug, convenience, etc. stores. For decades, there has been a (somewhat class-based) stigma about holding up the line in these kinds of places by paying with check, government benefits, coins, coupons, or anything else besides cash and credit. There's also a separate, arguably more deserved stigma about entitled people causing trouble by using…

It's not without problems in Aus as well - Only 1 out of our 'Big Four' banks actually accepts it. I suppose it's a bad example.

However 'Tap and go' is so widely adopted that I haven't carried cash in months and I know people that legitimately don't know their own PIN

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#82

Post by Rapzid » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 2:15 AM UTC

skookumchuck wrote: post #17

It turns out that a signature on a bank check means nothing. Neither does the payer name on the check. Not the amount in cursive. Nor does the check paper. The only things that are checked are the digits of the amount, and the account number. The rest of the check can be complete garbage, and the check will go through and the bank will pay it. Then the banks will blame you, the account holder. I learned this the hard…

IIRC, back when I worked at Wells Fargo, they further audited a certain(7?) percent of the checks being processed.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#83

Post by 6t6t6t6 » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 2:16 AM UTC

Once in the UK, the cashier didn't want to take my credit card because there was no signature on the back.

I wondered, which kind of graphology training do Tesco cashiers go through in order to be able to identify a fake signature?

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#84

Post by ryanhuff » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 2:17 AM UTC

supertrope wrote: post #78

sleet wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It amazes me that cheques are still used. I'm 36 and I've never issued a cheque, I think I was issued a cheque book with my first account but never used it.

The payments clearinghouse in USA is in need of an upgrade but no one wants to pay for it or suffer any downtime or errors. Waiting up to three days is the reason why Paypal/Venmo, credit cards, cash and wire transfers are still so popular but these fast options can carry hefty fees. e.g. Credit cards skim 2% of businesses' revenue, ATMs can charge $3, and wire transfers are 25USD. Banks also benefit from the liquidi…

An upgrade is actually in progress. https://www.nacha.org/news/nacha-membership-approves-same-da...

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#85

Post by user5994461 » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 2:18 AM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #64

matte_black wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, too easy to argue you signed a bunch of things you did not see. I want each page initialed and important disclaimers signed at the location they appear. Will make it much easier for me in court. Much harder for you.

When we raised money from several VCs (using some of the top legal firms in silicon valley and NYC) all we had to sign was the very last page which had only the signature lines on it. It could have been attached to anything. And in fact, sometimes, they emailed us the signature page separately for us to sign, scan and send back. So I don't really think there is really much legal benefit to having stuff on every page…

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean there isn't a legal benefit.

A paper contract must be done in two copies. Every page numbered and signed by both parties. That's the only way to cover your ass against the other party replacing pages and terms.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#86

Post by supertrope » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 2:18 AM UTC

stevep98 wrote: post #29

There’s something missing from this article. When you sign a receipt, you’re not just providing a sample of your signature for comparison against the one on the card. You are signing a document, usually saying that ‘I agree to comply with the terms of the cardholder agreement’ If this is no longer necessary, the card issuers must have determined that they have other legal agreements which cover purchases, and that th…

The incentive for the merchant to collect signatures is fighting chargebacks. If there is a disputed transaction and the merchant cannot retrieve a receipt the customer automatically wins regardless of almost any other fact(s). But on purchases of less than $50 it was decided by the market that skipping the signature saved more money in faster checkouts than it saved in dispute resolution.

The EMV standard includes a purchase total verification step where the customer is shown the number and must press OK to confirm. But again speed has been considered more important. That OK? prompt is going away and Quick Chip will first authorize a dummy amount and send the real amount after the transaction is totaled up. It's not like USA market was using PINs for two factor authentication anyway. Restaurants are allowed to adjust purchase totals for tips and closing out tabs.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#87

Post by jdavis703 » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 2:19 AM UTC

skookumchuck wrote: post #17

It turns out that a signature on a bank check means nothing. Neither does the payer name on the check. Not the amount in cursive. Nor does the check paper. The only things that are checked are the digits of the amount, and the account number. The rest of the check can be complete garbage, and the check will go through and the bank will pay it. Then the banks will blame you, the account holder. I learned this the hard…

That's not always true. I bought a car in 2012 and paid by check. Unfortunately I tranposed the cents amount for 89 and 98 in the two number fields. I got a call a few days later saying the check didn't clear because of the mismatch and that I needed to come back ASAP and write a new check with the proper amount in both fields.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#88

Post by whoopdedo » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 2:21 AM UTC

SilasX wrote: post #39

skookumchuck wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. They said I'm obliged to audit the checks myself each month.

Yikes! Wake up call!

I had a bank tell me there was nothing they could do because I didn't notify them of a fraudulent transaction on my account within 90 days.

I didn't need 90 days to find a new bank. (A credit union, in fact.)

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#89

Post by howlingfantods » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 2:22 AM UTC

I haven't touched a physical credit card in 2 years. Mobile payments is the future

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#90

Post by kevindong » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 2:23 AM UTC

My apartment's leasing office accepts UPS/USPS/FedEx/etc. packages on my behalf when I'm not available. Whenever I go in to pick up a package, they ask me for both my ID and my signature on a tablet. Immediately after I tap the 'Confirm' button, I get an email with a PNG of the signature I just "signed". When I first moved into my apartment, I made some effort to give my regular signature. Nowadays, I just make a couple waves with a single finger movement which looks like nothing out of the alphabet. The mailroom staff really couldn't care less how I sign since they've already looked at my ID.

I always wonder what the point of the signature is in this scenario.