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Paypal is holding over 600,000 euros from the minecraft developer

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Re: Paypal is holding over 600,000 euros from the minecraft developer

#81

We ditched paypal because: 1. Their site is very slow which hurt conversions. People who may have simply paid using a regular credit card went down the PP funnel and got frustrated and simply left. 2. Retention for monthly subscribers was 10 to 20% lower than credit card subscribers. 3. Refund policy sucked. It would take several days for our customers to get their money back if we refunded them. 4. Tools to manage b…

Their site really is slow as can be. I dread not being able to dig something up in my email, that means I have to go use Paypal's search - each page can seriously take 10-15 seconds to come up.

Re: Paypal is holding over 600,000 euros from the minecraft developer

#82
post #61
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

actually this tweet explains it a little better: http://twitter.com/xnotch/status/24100656191

You are funny. Tweets are only a line long or so, so you might as well have copied the thing (with attribution).

Directing to the original source is more authoritative and informative.

Re: Paypal is holding over 600,000 euros from the minecraft developer

#83
post #6
post #4

The "paypal blocked my money" stories are frequent. I'm curious to which extent this is legal. I'm pretty sure a bank isn't allowed to block access to your accounts without a formal request from a legal entity. Paypal doesn't "own" the money. This sounds to me as extremely abusive. Is that this frequent?

That's the rub--Paypal is not a bank . They can do whatever they want with the virtual money that is exchanged on their servers. Which is why a real merchant account is the only serious option for a larger-scale business.

It's not 'virtual' money. We're not talking tokens here, this is actual money.

Re: Paypal is holding over 600,000 euros from the minecraft developer

#84
Everyone has known for years that Paypal is awful, regularly steals large amounts of money held by perfectly legitimate customers, and does it all through inscrutable, unfriendly, customer-service processes.

I know this, man.

Yet Paypal is bigger than ever, and there's no glimmer of improvement on the horizon.

So either we assume Ebay, the parent corp, is so clueless about milking Paypal for profit while reinvesting as little as possible back into it, or we assume Ebay has a reason for not improving Paypal in any significant way in the past 5+ years.

I'm starting to suspect there's a great financial reason for Ebay to keep doing this. And it might be a similar financial strategy that Amazon has famously used from day 1. Amazon collect payments immediately, yet ships items much later. This means their cashflow is always more than their inventory expenses at any given moment. For however much time there is until that gap closes, Amazon is in a great position—essentially getting a short term loan, and if you consider their volume of transactions, that is billions of cash being held in floating pools.

What if Paypal provides a similar benefit to Ebay's bottom line? Paypal isn't a bank, so they can do whatever they want with the held funds. I suppose what actually happens to the held funds is a corporate secret they guard carefully. But I bet it props up Ebay's cashflow in a major way. If Ebay changed ways and forced Paypal to provide better guarantees, much like a bank, then their cashflow would take a hit.

Good idea or am I off?

Re: Paypal is holding over 600,000 euros from the minecraft developer

#85
I had a similar case with PayPal, back in 2001, but the sums were much smaller. I was doing freelance work, and most of my clients paid me via PayPal. Then PayPal froze my account, when I had about $2,500 in it. I needed that money to pay rent. It took about 6 weeks before they re-opened my account. To pay rent I had to borrow money from friends and family. PayPal was very hard to deal with. They kept asking for proof that I was me. They wanted me to send bills that verified my address, but I was subletting an apartment for 3 months and had very little evidence that I was really me.

At another time some friends of mine started a business with me and we had a PayPal account for awhile. At some point we stopped using it, and then someone sent us $200. I've no idea what happened to that $200. Possibly it got auto-refunded at some point. Possibly it is still sitting there, in the account. Whatever email address we used for that account was tied to the company we had, which had a domain name we gave up on years ago.

All the same, PayPal is the easiest way to go when you are starting up a new site. And PayPal has aggressively bought up some of the competition that used to be a lot better than PayPal. (PayFlow Pro, for instance)

Re: Paypal is holding over 600,000 euros from the minecraft developer

#86
post #84

Everyone has known for years that Paypal is awful, regularly steals large amounts of money held by perfectly legitimate customers, and does it all through inscrutable, unfriendly, customer-service processes. I know this, man. Yet Paypal is bigger than ever, and there's no glimmer of improvement on the horizon. So either we assume Ebay, the parent corp, is so clueless about milking Paypal for profit while reinvesting…

Amazon doesn't bill you until an item ships, even for third parties that sell items through them. I've verified this on my credit card statement.

Re: Paypal is holding over 600,000 euros from the minecraft developer

#87
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone explain how PayPal is not constantly in court defending against class action law suits? No lawyer anywhere has considered the possibility of a massive payout from representing all of the clients over the world whose money PayPal has swallowed without explanation? Or, somehow, PayPal has managed to craft contracts so legally airtight that they can do absolutely anything with anyone's money with absolutely n…

Anyone with the money and will to tangle with Paypal has the clout to get enough attention to make Paypal change their mind.

A corollary: Anyone with the money to tangle with Paypal has the wits not to need to use Paypal in the first place.

Re: Paypal is holding over 600,000 euros from the minecraft developer

#88
post #2

Another Paypal horror story added to the list. If someone was wondering (as i did), no, he didn't let 600k on his paypal account. That's what he's earned since they limited his account 25th august. See http://twitter.com/Toucanator/status/24089600756 and http://twitter.com/xnotch/statuses/24089647124 . EDIT: Minecraft complete steam sales data,amazing: http://m00d.net/minecraft/sales/

I find it interesting that in limiting the account, they still allow deposits but not withdrawals along with a threat of keeping the money.

If they were truly concerned about that something fraudulent was going on they would not allow people to deposit money in either.

Re: Paypal is holding over 600,000 euros from the minecraft developer

#89
post #84

Everyone has known for years that Paypal is awful, regularly steals large amounts of money held by perfectly legitimate customers, and does it all through inscrutable, unfriendly, customer-service processes. I know this, man. Yet Paypal is bigger than ever, and there's no glimmer of improvement on the horizon. So either we assume Ebay, the parent corp, is so clueless about milking Paypal for profit while reinvesting…

To add to the other poster about collecting payment before shipping: It's not just Amazon that never does this; generally speaking (in the US, at least), nobody is allowed to collect on an item until it ships.

Typically a merchant handles this by initially placing a hold for the amount of the purchase on your credit card, preventing you from using the funds for anything else but without a transfer actually taking place, and finalizing the transaction only after stuff goes out the door.

('Generally speaking' because it's been almost a decade since I've done physical goods e-commerce sites. I'm not sure of the exact source of the requirement (law? contracts with the credit card companies?) nor the cases where exceptions are made.)

Re: Paypal is holding over 600,000 euros from the minecraft developer

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like they screwed you too, and your defending them? It sound suspiciously like they just want to keep the money for as long as possible. Collecting interest on your assets is a clear profit motive.

I don't consider myself screwed at all. They held my money until I gave them proper documentation. When you run a business this kind of thing happens all the time. Just paying taxes to the government was way more complicated and intrusive. Yes they can earn interest on money, but it's much more likely to me that they are covering their asses about the money rather than earning a small amount of interest on it. Paypal…

In my ING Direct account (savings) I earn 1.1% APY currently, on 600.000 that is 6.600, that is 550 a month. If they freeze your accounts for two months, they have "earned" 1.100.

Now think of the amount of money going through paypal or sitting in paypal accounts, that is a fair chunk of change.

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