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You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

sam-the-man.com

81–90 of 142 posts

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#81
post #17

I move from Australia to Iceland. Icelanders always go "what the hell man? why would you do that?" when they find out. It's complicated. Broadly speaking, it's an even split between: 1. Icelands software industry being considerably more vibrant than Australias, which is really sad for Aus. 2. Australias government increasingly intervening directly in it's citizens lives whether they like it or not. The Icelandic gove…

Would love to find out how you got a job programming in Iceland. What were the requirements for language, Visa, how did you find the role etc?

Australians don't need visas to visit or stay temporarily in Iceland, but to work you need a residence permit and work permit.

Residence permits won't get processed while you're in the country as a tourist, so you apply from outside the country and wait. There are no language requirements as long as someone is willing to hire you. To get a residence permit you need to meet the quality of "support"[1], which broadly means either approximately $22,000 in savings per year of your permit OR payslips demonstrating a monthly income that meets $22,000/yr OR an employment contract from an Icelandic company.

If you go the employment route, you need a work permit. For software, this is usually done on the basis of "expert knowledge"[2]. The company usually needs to demonstrate that they're unable to hire a schengen zone citizen to do your job (otherwise you're not expert enough I guess?), and then issue you with a contract that you submit to the directorate of immigration. That's relatively informal though, and mostly means the company needs to advertise in Iceland first and show that it interviewed candidates and they weren't suitable. Iceland is heavily unionized and your work permit will need a stamp of approval from a relevant union. The first time you request this the union will want to see your qualifications. I strongly suggest becoming a member of that union to smooth things over when you get it renewed every one or two years. Iceland is charmingly small-town corrupt like that.

All Icelanders under ~60 speak flawless English, and it's pretty common for Icelanders under 30 to interleave English words into Icelandic sentences in cases where there isn't a good Icelandic word. Unless the company you apply to works heavily with Icelandic language products, it's unlikely that speaking only English would be a barrier to employment.

As for getting the job itself, Iceland is /desperate/ for good programmers. The cost of living is high, the wages are low, and the local universities don't have fabulous software degrees[3]. It's hard for Icelandic companies to hire good programmers. If you want to come to Iceland and you have a qualification, it may not be that hard. However, I suggest visiting for a holiday in June and again in February, to see what this country is really like. If you don't love it as a place to live, you won't stay long.

This might be a good place to start looking: https://www.tvinna.is/

[1] http://www.utl.is/index.php/en/basic-requirements1#support

[2] http://www.utl.is/index.php/en/residence-permits-based-on-wo...

[3] My friends tell me that slightly pre-banking-crisis, all the universities reformed their software degrees to churn out low level CRUD app webdevs to make lots of web apps for the high flying Icelandic banks. When the banks all crashed, Iceland became awash with relatively inflexible developers, and the universities haven't really refocused their coursework much, so the standard of graduates is, I am told, still relatively poor.

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#82
post #26

The grass is always greener on the other side. Being born in Europe and living here is suffocating me.

Europe is a big place and covers at least 6 different kinds of lifestyle and 3 kinds of weather. That's a few shades of grass to try before you give up entirely?

We're on HN. The startup industry in most of Europe is non-existent. Very few options. As a founder, much of Europe looks pretty much the same. Want to actually assimilate - good luck given the prevalent ethnocentrism. It's nothing like moving from one US state to another.

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#83

I move from Australia to Iceland. Icelanders always go "what the hell man? why would you do that?" when they find out. It's complicated. Broadly speaking, it's an even split between: 1. Icelands software industry being considerably more vibrant than Australias, which is really sad for Aus. 2. Australias government increasingly intervening directly in it's citizens lives whether they like it or not. The Icelandic gove…

Wanna do lunch next week?

Yeah man, somewhere downtown?

edit: If you've got keybase, you can add me with user "arkaroo". Otherwise, what's a good way to get in contact?

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my college classmates moved about 15 years ago from working for NASA to Europe to work for ESA, I think the decision process is different for African Americans, one has to think about how one or one's child is more likely to be killed by a policeman than a terrorist in the United States (when the President cites terrorism as some existential threat to be addressed by national immigration policies versus no act…

That's a good point, ethnicity likely is a huge factor in making decisions such as these. That said, racism is alive and well in Europe.

It's certainly less likely to be a cause of death for your child or person, given officers in general are less armed. And in the UK's case, they ban some of the worst offenders from entering.

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quality of health care is so high in Europe that I really cannot imagine any European going to the US for treatment apart from perhaps very few experimental treatments that are not permitted in Europe.

Unsure what it's like in Europe, but when my Canadian cousin had a brain tumor, he went to the U.S. for treatment. Canada's health care system is on average better than the U.S, but when you have a brain tumor, you don't want an average doctor, you want the best. And by and large, these are still in the U.S. because they can make an order of magnitude more money than they could in a country with socialized medicine.

This was my experience in Canada as well. Everybody get the same level of care, but when the shit hits the fan, I'd prefer to get care in the US.

A good example is cancer. Cutting edge cancer drugs are pretty universally covered by both public and private insurance, right after FDA approval.

In Canada it can take years before the gov't agrees to pay for it and sometimes they say "no".[1]

"It's crazy that I live in Canada, but now I'm looking at having to sell my house for coverage of my medication."

[1] http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/a-tale-of-2-f...

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#86
post #19

We moved from France back to the US (Miami, specifically) in the last year. Going back to France has come up a lot in our household. Salaries are definitely higher here but once I deduct the major expenses (healthcare, childcare, healthy foods) it comes out to be only 10% bump salary wise. In our travels the one thing we have found is that medical tourism is becoming a better known option to Americans. I've met docto…

Is real estate cheaper here or there? It seems, at least in the southwest, more common to be able to afford more land/property.

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#87
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1. And do not need a visa if you are European.

Unless, you know, you're British and your fellow countrymen decided to go crazy all at the same time.

I know you're being humorous, but to spell it out: They aren't crazy, they're simply like that.

And, like the article says, you have options. For anybody still on the fence, I can't recommend leaving the UK enough.

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#88
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1. And do not need a visa if you are European.

Unless, you know, you're British and your fellow countrymen decided to go crazy all at the same time.

We feel for you :-/

2016 year of the chav.

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently in the process of moving out of the U.S. to Japan. I'm considering ditching my U.S. citizenship for this reason.

Do you have Japanese citizenship? Ending up stateless doesn't seem worth it.

I may be wrong, but I believe if not so the US legally can't allow him to renounce his citizenship.

(Allowing a person to become stateless is illegal if I remember correctly, but my memory's ever-so-slightly fuzzy around this topic.)

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#90

Every time I fight with my insurance company about what's covered or not, I certainly consider it. When I had to enter my kid into a lottery system and cross my fingers he'd end up in a good school, I certainly considered it. Canada's not too far away.

Ever live in Canada? It's more US-lite than western Europe.
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