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Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

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Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#81
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead, I have to update every single client. To combat this, every single image we use from hub.docker.com is "proxied" into our registry with a one-line Dockerfile: FROM image:version Building the "proxy" image and publishing it in our registry is entirely automated (using CI+Registry of a self-hosted Gitlab). Then we make everything point to our version in our registry. Should hub.docker.com go belly-up, then w…

Do you do it per project or as a separate project that houses all the proxy images? How do you version the proxy images? What namespace do you push them into? Is it easy enough to deal with that it doesn’t waste a lot of time? I’ve been trying to insulate myself from docker too and the FROM proxy strategy seems to break the least stuff. Have you hit any pain points?

This is a single 'gitlab.example.com/docker/library' project.

We use orphan branches, one per image, although other strategies are possible (like using the commit diff and directory name).

Proxy images are versioned using branch names (e.g postgres vs postgres-9.6), images are pushed to gitlab.example.com/docker/library/postgres, and using version detection we generate docker image tags (e.g a 'postgres' branch will create postgres:latest, plus extracting version from postgres --version also pushes postgres:10 and postgres:10.1 images.

See this .gitlab-ci.yml[0]. Yes, there is one per branch. This can be generalised further (especially with Gitlab's new import system for .gitlab-ci.yml) but works well enough in practice, it's very low maintenance, and updates are a mere commit+push away.

In fact we use this not just for proxying images but for all "generalised", "utility", or "dependency" images that are not the result of a given full-blown app project in its own repo (those have their own CI/CD process in their respective repo)

[0]: https://gitlab.com/snippets/1705998

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#82

We are extremely worried about the future of Docker Swarm as well. We love Swarm - but we are seeing most work out of the Docker team is to give a migration path to kubernetes. A huge number of docker swarm networking bugs are not being worked on. We will be happy if Docker talks about Swarm becoming a management UX for K8s - but we need visibility. These are production orchestration systems. The migration path is no…

Why did you pick Swarm for production? We followed Swarm from the beginning, but after a few releases at v0.4 it was clear not to ever use Swarm, and that it mostly was the Docker PR machine that made it sound nice, and not the actual features. Maybe it got better later on, but the first several Swarm announcements seemed really off-putting to me. We ended up on Mesos/Marathon, not that that has a bright future eithe…

The actual features are very nice. I don't know what else makes you say 'migrate' apart from the fact that there's a growing support for k8s. The advantages of Swarm (very easy setup in private clouds, docker-compose format descriptors,etc.) don't go away just because k8s is popular.

Stop spreading FUD please, it is not good for anyone.

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#83
post #55
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question - what makes you think that Kubernetes has won? Well, "won" in quotes. I am not a k8s fanboy or anything, I simply observe that all the major cloud providers are offering managed k8s services that have superseded their own proprietary container-type offerings. For better or worse that's where the momentum is. If you wanted to containerize your stack right now, k8s then pick one of the big 3, seems li…

> Well, "won" in quotes. I am not a k8s fanboy or anything, I simply observe that all the major cloud providers are offering managed k8s services that have superseded their own proprietary container-type offerings. For better or worse that's where the momentum is. If you wanted to containerize your stack right now, k8s then pick one of the big 3, seems like a safe bet. kubernetes got released more than a year earlier…

The only real upsite is how easy it is to install and maintain. But that's hardly important with pretty cheap hosted solutions around (at least cheap in comparison to hiring several SRE to maintain the cluster)

Indeed - something like AKS can get you up and running very quickly, whereas as recently as 6 months ago unless you had a k8s wizard-guru on staff, there was no point in even trying to go it alone, esp. not into Production.

It also suggests that the skill set of the on-prem k8s expert will decline in demand over time, there will be less demand for people who can set it up from scratch on bare metal. We shall see!

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#84
post #66
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who’s beating them? Amazon?

Kubernetes had won the container scheduler wars. At GitLab we're all in on making a PaaS based on k8s and our CI/CD and the container registry that is part of GitLab.

It feels awfully 19th century though that despite k8s having "won", by far the biggest container schedulers by containers scheduled are, no doubt:

(I think this is the correct order, not 100% sure of course)

1) google borg (maybe omega) [1]

2) amazon ec2

3) whatever microsoft is using

(large gap)

4) all the rest of the world combined, a small portion of which is k8s

[1] https://www.quora.com/Does-Google-use-the-Open-Source-Kubern...

(one might even say [1] seems to imply it'll never happen, or at least take a very long time. Also if you read the papers it becomes very clear that "Google Borg" includes a lot of things these days at many levels, from custom ASICs, device firmware (as in standard device, google borg firmware), BIOS firmware, entirely custom sub-kernel code, custom kernels, custom userspace (ie. Google-specific libc that's not optional), ... all of these will turn out to have dependencies on eachother that have to be redone for k8s, could take a while to migrate over)

(although I have not read any papers on it (I'd love some though), I'd bet amazon is in a similar boat, and of course Microsoft is Microsoft)

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#85
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kubernetes had won the container scheduler wars. At GitLab we're all in on making a PaaS based on k8s and our CI/CD and the container registry that is part of GitLab.

It feels awfully 19th century though that despite k8s having "won", by far the biggest container schedulers by containers scheduled are, no doubt: (I think this is the correct order, not 100% sure of course) 1) google borg (maybe omega) [1] 2) amazon ec2 3) whatever microsoft is using (large gap) 4) all the rest of the world combined, a small portion of which is k8s [1] https://www.quora.com/Does-Google-use-the-Open-…

EC2 is not a container scheduler - it's an IaaS for VMs. The Amazon container PaaS (ECS/EKS) is a layer on top of EC2. And that is being superseded by Fargate which will make the underlying EC2 invisible. If you need a Fargate-like capability now, Azure AKS does it.

See https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/container-service... and https://aws.amazon.com/fargate/

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#86
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels awfully 19th century though that despite k8s having "won", by far the biggest container schedulers by containers scheduled are, no doubt: (I think this is the correct order, not 100% sure of course) 1) google borg (maybe omega) [1] 2) amazon ec2 3) whatever microsoft is using (large gap) 4) all the rest of the world combined, a small portion of which is k8s [1] https://www.quora.com/Does-Google-use-the-Open-…

EC2 is not a container scheduler - it's an IaaS for VMs. The Amazon container PaaS (ECS/EKS) is a layer on top of EC2. And that is being superseded by Fargate which will make the underlying EC2 invisible. If you need a Fargate-like capability now, Azure AKS does it. See https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/container-service... and https://aws.amazon.com/fargate/

So what is the EC2 container scheduler before Fargate called ? Any papers on it ?

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#87
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to make a decision for an orchestration tool a few weeks ago and I went with K8s. One of the main reasons was that even Docker advertises it on its website and with Docker for Mac. I expect Swarm support to be canceled in a not so distant future and I cannot rely on a tool with an unclear future. Which is a pity because I really liked Swarm for its simplicity. Side note: I am also concerned about Docker in gene…

I'm not sure who's going to beat Docker. Docker is central to most orchestration tools so as long as they make money someplace with their central services, they should be fine.

The kubernetes community is pouring a lot of resources into cri-o. I imagine you are going to see the kubernetes clusters that are built 'the hard way' start switching over and removing docker. It will still be used for building pushing containers for the time being.

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#88
Please keep docker swarm going guys, it's a great product.

Docker cloud is no loss (with apologies to those who are using it in production) and will hopefully free up your people to work on other important stuff.

Otherwise if we can continue to use the compose configuration api and the docker deploy/service api with k8s under the hood then I guess that's a reasonable compromise.

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#89
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EC2 is not a container scheduler - it's an IaaS for VMs. The Amazon container PaaS (ECS/EKS) is a layer on top of EC2. And that is being superseded by Fargate which will make the underlying EC2 invisible. If you need a Fargate-like capability now, Azure AKS does it. See https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/container-service... and https://aws.amazon.com/fargate/

So what is the EC2 container scheduler before Fargate called ? Any papers on it ?

ECS and EKS.

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#90

We are extremely worried about the future of Docker Swarm as well. We love Swarm - but we are seeing most work out of the Docker team is to give a migration path to kubernetes. A huge number of docker swarm networking bugs are not being worked on. We will be happy if Docker talks about Swarm becoming a management UX for K8s - but we need visibility. These are production orchestration systems. The migration path is no…

Why did you pick Swarm for production? We followed Swarm from the beginning, but after a few releases at v0.4 it was clear not to ever use Swarm, and that it mostly was the Docker PR machine that made it sound nice, and not the actual features. Maybe it got better later on, but the first several Swarm announcements seemed really off-putting to me. We ended up on Mesos/Marathon, not that that has a bright future eithe…

i would encourage you to try Swarm. Its brilliant in its simplicity. I think Docker product marketing and customer success basically sucks. But Swarm as a product has been really, really nice. And yes I continuously evaluate kubernetes and swarm side by side.

You can get a swarm cluster running in less than 10 minutes on your local laptop after "apt-get install docker-ce". To run k8s, you will need to first muck about ingress and overlays and everything else.

I know its because of "flexibility" - its like Sinatra vs Rails. They are both great in their spaces.

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